Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
DM Cheating
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 3531764" data-attributes="member: 177"><p>I can't actually agree here, MoogleEmpMog. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>Setting aside the ugly argument of whether this constitutes a "game"...</p><p></p><p>The problem is that this system, as written, completely <em>fails</em> to resolve the "I shot you!"/"No you didn't!" problem - because a character does what <em>his or her own player</em> says. So, you can say, "I shot you!" all you want. Until <em>I</em> say, "I take damage," your shooting me is meaningless.</p><p></p><p>There are ways around that. I expect you'd like to see something like this:</p><p>Player A: I shoot you!</p><p>Player B: I walk away unharmed.</p><p>Player A: I disagree. You can't walk away unharmed. So let's roll d6s.</p><p></p><p>But, by the rules, this is Player B being stupid. From B's point of view, it should go more like this...</p><p></p><p>Player A: I shoot you!</p><p>Player B: Before the bullet covers half the remaining distance, I travel back in time and kill your character's father before you were conceived, so that you are never born and cannot have shot me.</p><p>Player A: ...!</p><p></p><p>Of course, player A will object. But, by invoking Zeno's Paradox, player B can do this an infinite number of times, or until he or she is satisfied with the result. Unless, of course, player A chooses to time-travel as well. What we now have is the moral equivalent of tic-tac-toe, where the thing can always be forced to a draw, without resolving anything. That's hardly "comprehensive".</p><p></p><p>So, I'll submit that rather than require zero intervention, such a system instead requires <em>constant</em> intervention (in the form of player goodwill and cooperation) in order to function. </p><p></p><p>Which is not to say that such games cannot be fun. They simply don't satisfy the requirements stated above.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Umbran, post: 3531764, member: 177"] I can't actually agree here, MoogleEmpMog. :) Setting aside the ugly argument of whether this constitutes a "game"... The problem is that this system, as written, completely [i]fails[/i] to resolve the "I shot you!"/"No you didn't!" problem - because a character does what [i]his or her own player[/i] says. So, you can say, "I shot you!" all you want. Until [i]I[/i] say, "I take damage," your shooting me is meaningless. There are ways around that. I expect you'd like to see something like this: Player A: I shoot you! Player B: I walk away unharmed. Player A: I disagree. You can't walk away unharmed. So let's roll d6s. But, by the rules, this is Player B being stupid. From B's point of view, it should go more like this... Player A: I shoot you! Player B: Before the bullet covers half the remaining distance, I travel back in time and kill your character's father before you were conceived, so that you are never born and cannot have shot me. Player A: ...! Of course, player A will object. But, by invoking Zeno's Paradox, player B can do this an infinite number of times, or until he or she is satisfied with the result. Unless, of course, player A chooses to time-travel as well. What we now have is the moral equivalent of tic-tac-toe, where the thing can always be forced to a draw, without resolving anything. That's hardly "comprehensive". So, I'll submit that rather than require zero intervention, such a system instead requires [i]constant[/i] intervention (in the form of player goodwill and cooperation) in order to function. Which is not to say that such games cannot be fun. They simply don't satisfy the requirements stated above. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
DM Cheating
Top