Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Rocket your D&D 5E and Level Up: Advanced 5E games into space! Alpha Star Magazine Is Launching... Right Now!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
DM Empowerment vs. Player Entitlement - Is this really that prevalent?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="kitsune9" data-source="post: 5835989" data-attributes="member: 18507"><p>In the OP's rant, it looked to be an example of bad DMing. The "Because I said so," fails on so many levels. Granted, it's good to have Rule 0, but it's not so great when it's used heavy-handed and arbitrarily or even worse-yet, in the middle of the game. Nothing is more frustrating than creating a character using the PH only to find in mid-game the DM says, "Oh, you picked that. Well, I don't like it. You don't get to use it."</p><p></p><p>However, on the other side of the coin there are bad players who try to use "logic" or realism in order to bend or break the rules. The example was another post in which the DM argued with the player about not being able to act because a guy charged him from a distance of 60 feet. The charging character won initiative, could charge, and attack. The player character was flat-footed, did not have initiative. Those were the rules, end of story. It may not seem "logical" or realistic, but it's the rule set in which to frame combat and play by. </p><p></p><p>There are ways to mitigate this behavior and this is what I do for my group:</p><p></p><p>1. I write up a campaign primer. It has the creation guidelines and what books are considered "legal" for play. If there is anything that I have banned, it's listed here. I rarely like to ban anything though unless it goes against the theme of the campaign.</p><p></p><p>2. I list all my houserules out and how they work. Everything else in the legal books applies. I only like to create thematic houserules for the specific campaign, but I will have only 1 or 2 actual houserules that will go from campaign to campaign. My personal rule of thumb is that I don't like creating a bunch of houserules.</p><p></p><p>3. If something turns out to be broken like a powerful feat/spell combo move, we'll discuss it after the session, but I will not, ever, ban or change it mid-stream in the game. If something annoys me, I let the player have his fun for the session and then we talk about it. If the player insists on keeping it, I usually acquiesce but with the warning that monsters / NPCs are likely to have it too if it's particularly effective.</p><p></p><p>Now for gamers who believe there should be DM empowerment / player entitlement, I would say there should be reasonable <em>expectations </em>in play. A player should be able to read the PH and play by the rules written. The DM should be able to establish before the campaign starts or after a session any house rules, modifications, or changes--hopefully to fit the theme of the campaign or to deal with problematic rules, but have a good reason to, and not to do so based on pettiness or whim.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="kitsune9, post: 5835989, member: 18507"] In the OP's rant, it looked to be an example of bad DMing. The "Because I said so," fails on so many levels. Granted, it's good to have Rule 0, but it's not so great when it's used heavy-handed and arbitrarily or even worse-yet, in the middle of the game. Nothing is more frustrating than creating a character using the PH only to find in mid-game the DM says, "Oh, you picked that. Well, I don't like it. You don't get to use it." However, on the other side of the coin there are bad players who try to use "logic" or realism in order to bend or break the rules. The example was another post in which the DM argued with the player about not being able to act because a guy charged him from a distance of 60 feet. The charging character won initiative, could charge, and attack. The player character was flat-footed, did not have initiative. Those were the rules, end of story. It may not seem "logical" or realistic, but it's the rule set in which to frame combat and play by. There are ways to mitigate this behavior and this is what I do for my group: 1. I write up a campaign primer. It has the creation guidelines and what books are considered "legal" for play. If there is anything that I have banned, it's listed here. I rarely like to ban anything though unless it goes against the theme of the campaign. 2. I list all my houserules out and how they work. Everything else in the legal books applies. I only like to create thematic houserules for the specific campaign, but I will have only 1 or 2 actual houserules that will go from campaign to campaign. My personal rule of thumb is that I don't like creating a bunch of houserules. 3. If something turns out to be broken like a powerful feat/spell combo move, we'll discuss it after the session, but I will not, ever, ban or change it mid-stream in the game. If something annoys me, I let the player have his fun for the session and then we talk about it. If the player insists on keeping it, I usually acquiesce but with the warning that monsters / NPCs are likely to have it too if it's particularly effective. Now for gamers who believe there should be DM empowerment / player entitlement, I would say there should be reasonable [I]expectations [/I]in play. A player should be able to read the PH and play by the rules written. The DM should be able to establish before the campaign starts or after a session any house rules, modifications, or changes--hopefully to fit the theme of the campaign or to deal with problematic rules, but have a good reason to, and not to do so based on pettiness or whim. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
DM Empowerment vs. Player Entitlement - Is this really that prevalent?
Top