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<blockquote data-quote="Gargoyle" data-source="post: 3747589" data-attributes="member: 529">I've had this type of thing happen with every group I've ever had.&nbsp; I find that it's best to warn them at the beginning of the campaign that sometimes they will encounter enemies that are too tough to defeat.&nbsp; I don't think you were unfair, but you could try to be even more fair, so to speak.&nbsp; Players only perceive the world by what you tell them, and they sometimes need to be given very obvious warning signs when they are approaching a dangerous encounter.&nbsp;&nbsp; You really have to hit them over the head with obvious clues sometimes...it's not that they're stupid, they just have such a limited perception of the world.&nbsp; Some ideas:&nbsp;- An obviously higher level group of adventurers was decimated when they went into a dungeon.-&nbsp; &quot;Aw, he's just a harmless bunny....look at the bones man!&quot;&nbsp; NPC's flat out warning them-&nbsp; Dreams portending their doom, fortune tellers, omens that someone with knowledge: arcane can interpretAnd it's just as important to give them an out.&nbsp; They need to have an alternate path set before them.&nbsp; For instance, if you want them to negotiate, have an NPC suggest it.&nbsp; (or have an NPC they don't like or don't trust suggest that they NOT negotiate).&nbsp; Or have them learn that the bad guys don't necessarily attack on sight and may be reasoned with (or conned).&nbsp;&nbsp; At the very least make it possible, maybe even easy, for them to escape if they have the good sense to realize they are in over their heads.&nbsp; Perhaps an underground river leading into the unknown could motivate them to jump on a raft to get away, or there are horses stabled near the entrance, or some other means of getting the heck out.It's tricky to throw encounters at them that they can't beat through combat because it always risks a TPK, which usually isn't fun.&nbsp; I'd be cautious because some groups just don't ever get it.&nbsp; And remember that even an encounter they are supposed to be able to beat sometimes turns ugly due to bad die rolls or the DM making a mistake...so purposely making up encounters they can't beat isn't always necessary.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Gargoyle, post: 3747589, member: 529"] I've had this type of thing happen with every group I've ever had. I find that it's best to warn them at the beginning of the campaign that sometimes they will encounter enemies that are too tough to defeat. I don't think you were unfair, but you could try to be even more fair, so to speak. Players only perceive the world by what you tell them, and they sometimes need to be given very obvious warning signs when they are approaching a dangerous encounter. You really have to hit them over the head with obvious clues sometimes...it's not that they're stupid, they just have such a limited perception of the world. Some ideas: - An obviously higher level group of adventurers was decimated when they went into a dungeon. - "Aw, he's just a harmless bunny....look at the bones man!" NPC's flat out warning them - Dreams portending their doom, fortune tellers, omens that someone with knowledge: arcane can interpret And it's just as important to give them an out. They need to have an alternate path set before them. For instance, if you want them to negotiate, have an NPC suggest it. (or have an NPC they don't like or don't trust suggest that they NOT negotiate). Or have them learn that the bad guys don't necessarily attack on sight and may be reasoned with (or conned). At the very least make it possible, maybe even easy, for them to escape if they have the good sense to realize they are in over their heads. Perhaps an underground river leading into the unknown could motivate them to jump on a raft to get away, or there are horses stabled near the entrance, or some other means of getting the heck out. It's tricky to throw encounters at them that they can't beat through combat because it always risks a TPK, which usually isn't fun. I'd be cautious because some groups just don't ever get it. And remember that even an encounter they are supposed to be able to beat sometimes turns ugly due to bad die rolls or the DM making a mistake...so purposely making up encounters they can't beat isn't always necessary. [/QUOTE]

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