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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Phasics" data-source="post: 3673347" data-attributes="member: 38866">I'm starting to think I need to go about this in reverse. instead of building from level 1 I think it may work better to make a Level 20 "Shapeshifter" with all the trimmings , get that balanced and then strip away the abilities all the way back to level 1. I think half the trouble is building from level 1 the end product is either too weak or too powerful.Here's What I'm thinkingA level 20 shapeshifter in my mind should be able to take the shape of any creature item or object between fine and gigantic, they should be able to move between tiny and huge as swift actions and to the fine and gigantic extremes with some effort and penalties.There should be 3 end varients which could be focused towardsPure Shifting Elemental ShiftingMonstrous ShiftingPure shifting is basically a fighter build, damage output should be in line with a level 20 fighter, can take humanoid form forming weapon shapes, can take monstrous form attacking with multiple limbs or single massive attacks. These attacks should be fixed i.e. 20/15/10/5 1dA20/15/10 1dB20/15 1dC20 1dDA<B<C<DAttacks should also be +5 since magic items are not an option and a basic AC damage reduction and spell resistance should be factored inElemental Shifting , can still take any form but can add an elemental effects to it, both offensive and defensive these compared to the pure shifter would do less physical dmg but is in line when elemental effects are added inMonstrous Shifting, can still take any form but gets access to many Monstrous Feats and Abilities such as flying digging, rake attacks etc etc Of course which path to follow would be part of level progression and an all rounder would be possible or a specialied in one of the three branches so to speak.And then of course I start thinking perhaps keep it simple as in maybe just have the pure shapeshifter as a base class and create 2 prestige classes of elemental and monsterous to add the flavour.</blockquote>

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