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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 3660483" data-attributes="member: 48965">You know what KM...I'm really getting tired of the blatant misrepresentation of  what I mean and say.  You're telling me from all of the posts I've put in this thread...every point I've made boils down to  the advice should have been...he should quit the group?  Okay, see it how you want to...but let me decide what I mean.  If you're unsure just ask.For anyone who seems unclear on my positions let me state them.  I first felt that the author did spend way too much of the article's time bashing the DM's fun and promoting one particular playstyle(certain players in the group) as "right".  I also believe that a DM has a right to have just as much fun as his/her player's do...and that his fun doesn't solely have to be the way YOU(author of article, KM, or whoever) have fun in a D&D game. Just because it's different...doesn't make it any less valid.  I am of the position that the...make it relevant advice... may have helped him alot...if the article had actually focused on that, instead of the players(no matter what the circumstances) are always right mentality the author seems to take.  I believe after going and reading the first part of Noah's question then reading the scond again...some of his players might just be asshats, and catering to them over the one's who are showing interest and paying attention is not the answer.  Making those players the center of attention, because they can't shut uo for a few minutes is not the answer.  Even changing his DM'ing style(not really enough info to determine this) may not be the right answer.  Sorry players are not more important than the DM or any other player in the game...they're equal.Throwing people out your group, or finding a group that wants the same things out of the game that you do, is a viable solution.  Maybe it's not to some people's taste and I never said it has to be your first option.  However after reading the first part of the question and then reading the second, I got the impression that some of them just don't give him even the basic respect or attention a DM needs to run a game, and could care less whether he is having fun or not.  In the first article, at least the author isn't so one-sided as to suggest it's all Noah's fault and then he actually goes on to give Noah advice about solving the problem.  However if it doesn't work, why feel like you have to play with these people no matter what?  Finding new players is a viable option and should be presented as an alternative if the author is really trying to give neutral advice...oh yeah, wait he isn't.Another quick point...a few posts back you were claiming the main gist of the article was "make things relevant".  Now all of a sudden  you agree the article spent too much time berating the DM and his creations.  Which one is it?  In fact I'd be interested in hearing exactly what you're points are as I'm starting to get confused about what it is your arguing for or against.</blockquote>

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