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Message: <blockquote data-quote="rounser" data-source="post: 675442" data-attributes="member: 1106">True, though you could agree with DM and other players that your character was X, and if they agreed then you could do the third person "my character talks to the guard in a persuasive manner" thing.  That runs into the obvious problems of someone who wants their character to excel in too many of those areas, and the inability to tell whether NPC X who is charismatic is moreso than PC Y.  So yeah, I agree that you do lose that to an extent, so you're right in that it would be inferior to the current system in that respect in particular.You do have a narrative one to resort to - "Gaptooth is slow on the uptake".  Sure, there's not as much information in one respect there, but there's more in another - you know the nature of his stupidity rather than just interpreting what 7 INT might mean.  It reminds me of Omega World's alignments, where the word "Deceitful" in the alignment box tells me more about the monster than "Chaotic Neutral" ever would...not that I'm implying narrative stats of this sort, although I can see the potential.Well, yes.  But D&D is innately hostile to smart, effective fighters. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  You can be smart and a suboptimal fighter, or dumb and an optimal fighter with 20 STR.  Sure, I'll cry you a river over that one, but it doesn't necessarily have to be that way. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />That's an approach I've played under before as well, but "trying your hardest" as a player under every circumstance will lead to bad roleplaying of a low charisma character, which in turn could lead to suspension of disbelief problems.  If you stopped to play your PC abrasively (i.e. roleplay him properly), would the dice then double up on the penalty, in that you chose not to be charismatic and the dice doubled up on that to make it "worse" than the player already simulated?  Again, a thought.No, you were presenting a good argument up until the point at which you wrote that.</blockquote>

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