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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DarrenGMiller" data-source="post: 2119806" data-attributes="member: 23174">There is a difference between not drinking and tipping the trough, then hacking it up with their swords and laughing about it.  If the party walks away from the water, then so be it, but if they are intentionally destructive just to screw with the DM and/or the game (as was the original case) then it is not the actions themselves that destroy the game, but the attitude that caused the players to act that way that becomes the problem.  IMO, there is a level of trust  and a social contract that must exist between players and DM and BOTH sides have to uphold these things. Which brings me to:  Look, I know that there are good DM's and bad DM's, as well as good and bad players, but who made you the authority on what is good and what is bad?  Who made you the DM police?  Did it ever occur to anyone to talk to the DM and tell him your feelings about his DM'ing, then work with him to improve?  The whole "we made him a better DM" line smacks of self-importance.  Good thing he had you guys as players, or he would have had to "wallow in his bad-DM-ness" all the days of his life. DM</blockquote>