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DM Help! My rogue always spams Hide as a bonus action, and i cant target him!
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<blockquote data-quote="Harzel" data-source="post: 6960659" data-attributes="member: 6857506"><p>Actually, I hadn't made up my mind, and think that I still haven't.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, except when they don't. I mean, it's a bit of a side issue, but I think it is hard to claim or to expect that there aren't quite a few places that there will be dissociation (undesirable as it may be).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Somehow, I find your and @<em><strong><u><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6787503" target="_blank">Hriston</a></u></strong></em>'s explanations quite intuitively convincing and yet intellectually, I can't quite make sense of it. Let me ask about the following comparison.</p><ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Wood elf in snow storm, being directly observed. Observer turns away. I assume you will now allow the elf to attempt to hide. If so, let's say the elf rolls well enough to beat the observer's passive Perception, but does not move from her location. The observer now turns back and looks at the location where he last saw the elf (fully expecting her to be there). I assume you will rule, though, that the elf is now hidden.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Wood elf in snow storm, being directly observed. Observer does not turn away. My understanding is that you will not allow the elf to attempt to hide (or will rule that the attempt automatically fails). Yet there is nothing to prevent the elf in the fiction from taking exactly the same actions (whatever they were) that the elf did in (1), so I assert that she does so.</li> </ol><p>At this point Observer #1 and Observer #2 have exactly the same (external) stimuli impinging on their senses. And yet their perceptions are different. Since they have had different experiences, this is by no means impossible, but I wonder if you could just briefly explain the perceptual psychology of what has gone on here.</p><p></p><p>As an aside, I have another separate, but related, issue. In (1), while the observer is turned away and before the elf has tried to hide, I think it can be reasonably said that the observer "knows the location of" the elf - he believes her to be at a certain place and he is objectively correct. However, if we accept that knowing the location of a creature means that it cannot be hidden from you, then as soon as the elf has succeeded at hiding the observer no longer "knows the location of" the elf, because if he did, then she would not be hidden. This despite the fact that the elf's location has not changed and nothing relevant in the observer's brain has changed. Again, I am not claiming that this is impossible, but it seems that it must involve an interesting definition of "hidden" and/or "knows the location of". I would be interested to see definitions that help this make sense.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Harzel, post: 6960659, member: 6857506"] Actually, I hadn't made up my mind, and think that I still haven't. Well, except when they don't. I mean, it's a bit of a side issue, but I think it is hard to claim or to expect that there aren't quite a few places that there will be dissociation (undesirable as it may be). Somehow, I find your and @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6787503"]Hriston[/URL][/U][/B][/I]'s explanations quite intuitively convincing and yet intellectually, I can't quite make sense of it. Let me ask about the following comparison. [LIST=1] [*]Wood elf in snow storm, being directly observed. Observer turns away. I assume you will now allow the elf to attempt to hide. If so, let's say the elf rolls well enough to beat the observer's passive Perception, but does not move from her location. The observer now turns back and looks at the location where he last saw the elf (fully expecting her to be there). I assume you will rule, though, that the elf is now hidden. [*]Wood elf in snow storm, being directly observed. Observer does not turn away. My understanding is that you will not allow the elf to attempt to hide (or will rule that the attempt automatically fails). Yet there is nothing to prevent the elf in the fiction from taking exactly the same actions (whatever they were) that the elf did in (1), so I assert that she does so. [/LIST] At this point Observer #1 and Observer #2 have exactly the same (external) stimuli impinging on their senses. And yet their perceptions are different. Since they have had different experiences, this is by no means impossible, but I wonder if you could just briefly explain the perceptual psychology of what has gone on here. As an aside, I have another separate, but related, issue. In (1), while the observer is turned away and before the elf has tried to hide, I think it can be reasonably said that the observer "knows the location of" the elf - he believes her to be at a certain place and he is objectively correct. However, if we accept that knowing the location of a creature means that it cannot be hidden from you, then as soon as the elf has succeeded at hiding the observer no longer "knows the location of" the elf, because if he did, then she would not be hidden. This despite the fact that the elf's location has not changed and nothing relevant in the observer's brain has changed. Again, I am not claiming that this is impossible, but it seems that it must involve an interesting definition of "hidden" and/or "knows the location of". I would be interested to see definitions that help this make sense. [/QUOTE]
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DM Help! My rogue always spams Hide as a bonus action, and i cant target him!
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