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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6968153" data-attributes="member: 42582">This is just reiterating the subject-matter of contention. It doesn't take the discussion forward, however.Everyone agrees that a hidden elf can't be seen.Everyone agrees that an elf who can be seen isn't hidden.Everyone, as far as I can tell, even agrees that an elf who is currently not subject to observation (eg behind a tree trunk) can step out into light obscurement and have a chance to remain hidden. (I wonder whether a human can do this too, because - per p 64 of the Basic PDF - s/he has not yet come into the open - but I seem to be a lone voice on this, and I do worry how this is mean to fit with the elf ability.)What is up for grabs is this - can an elf, who currently is seen, become unseen simply in virtue of light obscurement? Can s/he, as it were, press the "cloaking" button and make the snow (or foliage, or rain, or whatever) render him/her unable to be seen?  [MENTION=6787503]Hriston[/MENTION] answers "no". I incline to the same answer, because - apart from anything else - I don't see why pressing the "cloaking" button in this way would be a DEX check. Others answer "yes". I'm still a bit unclear what they think is happening in the fiction - does the elf turn (quasi-)invisible? or turn sideways and disappear behind the snowflakes?I think these differences of interpretation are all fairly clear, and I don't think reiterating the rules text on its own, or stating truisms, is going to eliminate them.But [MENTION=6787503]Hriston[/MENTION]'s reading of the Sage - while different from yours - is pretty clear. So I don't think you're going to change Hriston's mind just by reiterating what the Sage said.Hriston agrees that anyone can hide who is not observed. But Hriston thinks that an elf who hides can then step out into light obscurement and remain hidden (which entails remaining unseen) while a human who did the same thing would immediately be noticed by any nearby observer, because (in general) light obscurement doesn't stop someone being noticed.This is the benefit that Hriston thinks is conferred by the Mask of the Wild ability.</blockquote>

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