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<blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 6971678" data-attributes="member: 23751">By AD&amp;D RAW, yes.&nbsp; That went away by 3e, though.You can, but that doesn't make them melee combat.&nbsp; I can play with my phone while I am fishing.&nbsp; That doesn't make my phone use fishing.I left a portion off of my scenario.&nbsp; I had intended to give them time to move, but have them not opt to since they had no idea he could cast spells.&nbsp; As a result, the fighter/magic user had to guess where they are and launch the fireball.My bad for leaving that part out.I missed that when you posted it the first time I guess <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />&nbsp; Okay, so we have in the rules that an invisible creature can be attacked if the other side saw it turn invisible, but at a -4 penalty.&nbsp; Why is that?&nbsp; He can't see the invisible creature.&nbsp; It's because he can GUESS where the creature is, having seen it become invisible.&nbsp; Similarly, they should be able to attack at a -4 if they didn't see it happen, but the invisible creature makes noise, revealing it's approximate location that way.It doesn't need to.&nbsp; It's an area spell and the explosion isn't going to go around the elf due the elf being undetectable.&nbsp; Imaging a situation where there is an invisible creature guarding a doorway.&nbsp; I have no idea that it's there, but I want to get through the wooden door, so I launch a fireball at the door to destroy it.&nbsp; Are you seriously arguing that the invisible creature takes no damage?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Maxperson, post: 6971678, member: 23751"] By AD&D RAW, yes. That went away by 3e, though. You can, but that doesn't make them melee combat. I can play with my phone while I am fishing. That doesn't make my phone use fishing. I left a portion off of my scenario. I had intended to give them time to move, but have them not opt to since they had no idea he could cast spells. As a result, the fighter/magic user had to guess where they are and launch the fireball. My bad for leaving that part out. I missed that when you posted it the first time I guess :) Okay, so we have in the rules that an invisible creature can be attacked if the other side saw it turn invisible, but at a -4 penalty. Why is that? He can't see the invisible creature. It's because he can GUESS where the creature is, having seen it become invisible. Similarly, they should be able to attack at a -4 if they didn't see it happen, but the invisible creature makes noise, revealing it's approximate location that way. It doesn't need to. It's an area spell and the explosion isn't going to go around the elf due the elf being undetectable. Imaging a situation where there is an invisible creature guarding a doorway. I have no idea that it's there, but I want to get through the wooden door, so I launch a fireball at the door to destroy it. Are you seriously arguing that the invisible creature takes no damage? [/QUOTE]

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