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<blockquote data-quote="Hriston" data-source="post: 6973653" data-attributes="member: 6787503">It wouldn't have made a difference. That isn't the problem with your scenario. The problem is that the elves were observed blending into the natural terrain and so are treated as detected. The magic-user can track their movements and knows where they are. It isn't guessing. It isn't guessing though. It's direct knowledge of the creature's location. Once detected, the creature's location is tracked by the observer.Correct, but since elves have the ability to move silently at will, this isn't an issue with regard to the elven hiding ability.We've been dancing around this issue for a while now, and I think it goes back to something I've heard [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] refer to as a fundamental difference in approach between 2e and other editions that came before. I've never played 2e, but my understanding is that it encourages DMs to directly adjudicate the fiction, whereas in earlier editions the fiction results from applying the resolution mechanics. I bring this up now because you're presenting a fictional scenario here that is precluded by the mechanics as some sort of proof that the mechanics don't work the way they do. According to my understanding of the mechanics, the elf is not within the area of effect precisely because it is undetected.Are you arguing that the creature stands motionless for the 18 seconds it takes you to cast fireball? In that amount of time, an elf could be 36 feet away from the doorway and well out of the fireball's radius.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hriston, post: 6973653, member: 6787503"] It wouldn't have made a difference. That isn't the problem with your scenario. The problem is that the elves were observed blending into the natural terrain and so are treated as detected. The magic-user can track their movements and knows where they are. It isn't guessing. It isn't guessing though. It's direct knowledge of the creature's location. Once detected, the creature's location is tracked by the observer. Correct, but since elves have the ability to move silently at will, this isn't an issue with regard to the elven hiding ability. We've been dancing around this issue for a while now, and I think it goes back to something I've heard [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] refer to as a fundamental difference in approach between 2e and other editions that came before. I've never played 2e, but my understanding is that it encourages DMs to directly adjudicate the fiction, whereas in earlier editions the fiction results from applying the resolution mechanics. I bring this up now because you're presenting a fictional scenario here that is precluded by the mechanics as some sort of proof that the mechanics don't work the way they do. According to my understanding of the mechanics, the elf is not within the area of effect precisely because it is undetected. Are you arguing that the creature stands motionless for the 18 seconds it takes you to cast [I]fireball[/I]? In that amount of time, an elf could be 36 feet away from the doorway and well out of the fireball's radius. [/QUOTE]

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