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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6984142" data-attributes="member: 42582">Well, here are two of your recent posts in this thread:I took the implication of these posts to be that, unless someone is a wood elf or a halfling or a skulker, then that person cannot hide in what is merely light obscurement, because such a person would be seen (= in full view) and hence not able to become or remain hidden.This makes me think back to some exchanges on this thread a week or two ago, where I was wondering about what is actually happening in the fiction on the account that you and [MENTION=23751]Maxperson[/MENTION] favour. I'm still not sure.Part of what makes [MENTION=6787503]Hriston[/MENTION]'s approach attractive to me is that it does make the fiction clear. In particular, it makes it clear that a wood elf who uses Mask of the Wild does not turn invisible or throw up a "cloaking" field.Relating this to the semantics of "try to hide": I try to hide can have (at least) two meanings. It can mean "I look for a place to hide" or it can mean "I remain silent and motionless and hope not to be noticed". [MENTION=6787503]Hriston[/MENTION] is interpreting it in the second sense. And then sees the rules around obscurement etc as setting the parameters for who can or cannot be noticed: if you're only lightly obscured then you will be noticed by anyone who looks unless you're an elf, skulker etc; if you're already under direct observation (ie already seen) then you will be noticed by the person who sees you even if you are an elf who steps behind a rain drop; if there is heavy obscurement, or a wall or other solid obstruction, then anyone can hope not to be noticed.The DEX check then determines whether the hope is realised - in the fiction, it determines whether or not the hiding person remains sufficiently quiet and still.I think this is an odd reading of the rules, beause it seems to imply that light obscurement is the best place to hide because it imposes Disadvantage on the check to be noticed. (Or does the would-be observer make one check to see if s/he hears, but then a second to see if s/he sees?)But in any event, it's not the only reading. In particular, from the fact that lightly obscured areas penalise Perception checks to see things, it doesn't follow (1) that a Perception check is required, or (2) that, if the check succeeds, the thing is not clearly seen.There is an element of chicken-and-egg here. If the lightly-obscured non-elven non-skulker does, in fact, satisfy the requirements to be hidden, then s/he is entitled to a DEX check, which then forces a check to notice him/her. But that check can't itself be the trigger for its own eligibility, on pain of circularity. Different posters are breaking this circle at different points.</blockquote>

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