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DM Help! My rogue always spams Hide as a bonus action, and i cant target him!
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<blockquote data-quote="Ilbranteloth" data-source="post: 6990054" data-attributes="member: 6778044"><p>Heh heh. This seems as good as any post to jump in. </p><p></p><p>There are a ton of real-life and fictional examples of things like this. ET hiding in the closet. The original assassins who would come up in plain sight in the middle of the day, Waldo, missing the guy in the gorilla suit while counting basketballs, etc.</p><p></p><p>I personally have watched a deer run into the woods, and lost sight of them even though there wasn't much obscurement. I eventually figured out where it was, but if it was somebody trying to attack me I'd have been in trouble. In that case it was the obscurement coupled with my eyes tracking where I thought the deer was going.</p><p></p><p>Illusionists rely on distraction to hide things in plain sight all the time.</p><p></p><p>As much as I got sucked into threads like this in the past, I'm at the point where I'm very comfortable with the idea that in the game, both as written and intended, the default option is to let them <em>try</em>. If it's difficult, then that's what advantage and disadvantage are for.</p><p></p><p>I watched a guy who was busy trying to light a cigarette (on a windy day) walk into a post. People get into accidents on a daily basis while paying attention to their cell phone.</p><p></p><p>I used to be a stickler for being very restrictive until I thought about things (and researched things) and found out how easy it really is to fool our senses, including sight. Heck, football plays are built around that concept too. Even melee combat is often based on making you think an attack is coming from one angle (feint) which takes your attention (perception) of the attack you're really making.</p><p></p><p>To put it a different way, for the most part we're really only good at focusing on one thing at a time. We can switch back and forth very quickly, it's that split second of focus on the wrong thing that can make all the difference in the world.</p><p></p><p>Camouflage can help to hide, but isn't always needed. Concealment (obscurement) helps too. None of these abilities require magic - they occur in our world all the time. A good example here is a shell game. Not all that different than "which tree did the elf hide behind?"</p><p></p><p>Could an elf go camo while somebody was watching? Well, if they are carefully watching the elf, it would probably be very difficult if not impossible. But all you really need to do is break line of sight. If you're watching an elf that intently, then I'd say that all other creatures would have advantage attacking you since you weren't paying attention to them. Turn to parry that sword coming at your head? Suddenly the elf has an opportunity.</p><p></p><p>That's the part that I feel people always miss in discussions like these. Yes, overall I'd agree that in combat, people are looking all around to watch out for risks and such. But, as they look around they also give opportunities for others to take actions. Then it's a question of the skill of the creature hiding vs the perception of the creature they are hiding from. And (surprise!) the rules cover that situation very well. The DM just needs to determine if there are any mitigating factors that grant advantage or disadvantage.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ilbranteloth, post: 6990054, member: 6778044"] Heh heh. This seems as good as any post to jump in. There are a ton of real-life and fictional examples of things like this. ET hiding in the closet. The original assassins who would come up in plain sight in the middle of the day, Waldo, missing the guy in the gorilla suit while counting basketballs, etc. I personally have watched a deer run into the woods, and lost sight of them even though there wasn't much obscurement. I eventually figured out where it was, but if it was somebody trying to attack me I'd have been in trouble. In that case it was the obscurement coupled with my eyes tracking where I thought the deer was going. Illusionists rely on distraction to hide things in plain sight all the time. As much as I got sucked into threads like this in the past, I'm at the point where I'm very comfortable with the idea that in the game, both as written and intended, the default option is to let them [I]try[/I]. If it's difficult, then that's what advantage and disadvantage are for. I watched a guy who was busy trying to light a cigarette (on a windy day) walk into a post. People get into accidents on a daily basis while paying attention to their cell phone. I used to be a stickler for being very restrictive until I thought about things (and researched things) and found out how easy it really is to fool our senses, including sight. Heck, football plays are built around that concept too. Even melee combat is often based on making you think an attack is coming from one angle (feint) which takes your attention (perception) of the attack you're really making. To put it a different way, for the most part we're really only good at focusing on one thing at a time. We can switch back and forth very quickly, it's that split second of focus on the wrong thing that can make all the difference in the world. Camouflage can help to hide, but isn't always needed. Concealment (obscurement) helps too. None of these abilities require magic - they occur in our world all the time. A good example here is a shell game. Not all that different than "which tree did the elf hide behind?" Could an elf go camo while somebody was watching? Well, if they are carefully watching the elf, it would probably be very difficult if not impossible. But all you really need to do is break line of sight. If you're watching an elf that intently, then I'd say that all other creatures would have advantage attacking you since you weren't paying attention to them. Turn to parry that sword coming at your head? Suddenly the elf has an opportunity. That's the part that I feel people always miss in discussions like these. Yes, overall I'd agree that in combat, people are looking all around to watch out for risks and such. But, as they look around they also give opportunities for others to take actions. Then it's a question of the skill of the creature hiding vs the perception of the creature they are hiding from. And (surprise!) the rules cover that situation very well. The DM just needs to determine if there are any mitigating factors that grant advantage or disadvantage. [/QUOTE]
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DM Help! My rogue always spams Hide as a bonus action, and i cant target him!
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