Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
DM: I think my players WANT me to fudge my dice roles!
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 7053150" data-attributes="member: 20323"><p>Players wanting to be challenged absolutely in NO way whatsoever means they want you to fudge dice rolls. That's just a bad assumption. As a quick way to save this, you could borrow the Flameskull's Rejuvenation trait, and make the Death Tyrant come back for round 2 later on – normally this would be a cheap move, but since a wizard was powerful enough to bind the Death Tyrant's service, then maybe the wizard was powerful enough to give it Rejuvenation.</p><p></p><p>EDIT: You could even seed areas of the wizard's tower (or treasure they've taken from the wizard's tower if they've left already) with notes about the wizard's experiments to bind a deathless servitor that would return after destroyed unless special ceremony precautions were taken.</p><p></p><p>There are *good* anticlimaxes thanks to PCs clever thinking and preparation. However, simply winning initiative and using a feature built into a class since 2nd level is not one of them. This was a bad anticlimax.</p><p></p><p>To avoid bad anticlimactic situations, the 2 key questions to ask yourself during game prep are:</p><p></p><p>1. What hurt can the PCs bring to the table? </p><p>2. How can I challenge the PCs / players in this scene?</p><p></p><p><strong>What hurt can the PCs bring to the table?</strong></p><p>So in your Death Tyrant example, you know there's a cleric in the party and you know the Death Tyrant is undead, so you know the cleric may use Turn Undead. He or she has had access to Turn Undead since 2nd level after all. You want this to be an epic challenge. So you review what Turn Undead does...</p><p></p><p>[SECTION]<strong>Channel Divinity: Turn Undead</strong></p><p>As an action, you present your holy Symbol and speak a prayer censuring the Undead. Each Undead that can see or hear you within 30 feet of you must make a Wisdom saving throw. If the creature fails its saving throw, it is turned for 1 minute or until it takes any damage.</p><p></p><p>A turned creature must spend its turns trying to move as far away from you as it can, and it can't willingly move to a space within 30 feet of you. It also can't take reactions. For its action, it can use only the Dash action or try to escape from an effect that prevents it from moving. If there's nowhere to move, the creature can use the Dodge action.[/SECTION]</p><p></p><p>So it needs an escape route! </p><p></p><p>But since the Death Tyrant is a nasty villain, you might want to place a bunch of minions and/or traps along its escape route that it can trigger with a bonus action (or it simply avoids by virtue of levitating). Alternately, LET it take damage from a trap, because that will break the cleric's turning. And heck, since this is a levitating beholder, why not makes its escape route vertical? Even more fun! <s>Because it's anti-magic eye always functions, any PCs trying to pursue it with magical flight up the vertical shaft are going to have a challenge.</s> EDIT: Sorry, confused its eye with normal beholder for a second.</p><p></p><p>Just because it gets turned, doesn't mean that it loses all of its malign cunning. Instead, it needs to adapt to a longer term strategy of survival, leading its assailants through a horrific maze in which it gets to use its Lair Actions to maximum effect.</p><p></p><p>As you can see, Turn Undead + Undead BBEG requires some changes to the way you may be used to designing dungeons.</p><p></p><p><strong>How can I challenge the PCs / players in this scene?</strong></p><p>One of the things I like to do for set piece encounters is to list 2-4 complications I can throw at the PCs to spice up the fight. Sometimes this might include a complication introduced specifically to make a certain strategy the PCs might take (e.g. ambush) more difficult. Sometimes this might be a wave of minions. Sometimes this might be changes to the environment that introduce hazards. Not only does this list help you keep the encounter fresh, but it also gives you a recourse when your BBEG is getting stomped.</p><p></p><p>For your Death Tyrant example...</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I want long sight lines for the Death Tyrant in this encounter, so it needs a big room, probably around 100 feet in diameter, so that with the Death Tyrant at the center, it's hard for a player to get close in one round without magic. And this allows the Death Tyrant to use its difficult terrain lair action to maximum effect. It would only be fair to provide some cover...but what if there are mirrors the Death Tyrant or its ogre minions can pivot to see around cover? Or what if it uses its spectral eye lair action?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Hidden obstacles or grappling monsters in the intervening space. I want these obstacles/monsters to potentially stop the PCs advance on the Death Tyrant and do a little damage so it can exploit its Negative Energy Cone to maximum effect. And not just on the PCs, but turning any humanoid monster servants into zombies as well. And a CR 14 against a 14th level party should have minion monsters backing it up.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Drop the floor out from under them. Literally. Use disintegration ray on a critical section of the floor causing massive collapse into a lower chamber. What's in the lower chamber? What (hazardous) routes can the PCs use to get back into melee range with the Death Tyrant hovering above?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Include spiked pit traps (or other traps/hazards) that the Death Tyrant can use its telekinetic ray to drop PCs into. EDIT: Even better if the pit seals off with a spring-loaded trap door locking into place and green slime or centipede swarms begin crawling in through tiny fissures in the pit.</li> </ul></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Quickleaf, post: 7053150, member: 20323"] Players wanting to be challenged absolutely in NO way whatsoever means they want you to fudge dice rolls. That's just a bad assumption. As a quick way to save this, you could borrow the Flameskull's Rejuvenation trait, and make the Death Tyrant come back for round 2 later on – normally this would be a cheap move, but since a wizard was powerful enough to bind the Death Tyrant's service, then maybe the wizard was powerful enough to give it Rejuvenation. EDIT: You could even seed areas of the wizard's tower (or treasure they've taken from the wizard's tower if they've left already) with notes about the wizard's experiments to bind a deathless servitor that would return after destroyed unless special ceremony precautions were taken. There are *good* anticlimaxes thanks to PCs clever thinking and preparation. However, simply winning initiative and using a feature built into a class since 2nd level is not one of them. This was a bad anticlimax. To avoid bad anticlimactic situations, the 2 key questions to ask yourself during game prep are: 1. What hurt can the PCs bring to the table? 2. How can I challenge the PCs / players in this scene? [B]What hurt can the PCs bring to the table?[/B] So in your Death Tyrant example, you know there's a cleric in the party and you know the Death Tyrant is undead, so you know the cleric may use Turn Undead. He or she has had access to Turn Undead since 2nd level after all. You want this to be an epic challenge. So you review what Turn Undead does... [SECTION][b]Channel Divinity: Turn Undead[/b] As an action, you present your holy Symbol and speak a prayer censuring the Undead. Each Undead that can see or hear you within 30 feet of you must make a Wisdom saving throw. If the creature fails its saving throw, it is turned for 1 minute or until it takes any damage. A turned creature must spend its turns trying to move as far away from you as it can, and it can't willingly move to a space within 30 feet of you. It also can't take reactions. For its action, it can use only the Dash action or try to escape from an effect that prevents it from moving. If there's nowhere to move, the creature can use the Dodge action.[/SECTION] So it needs an escape route! But since the Death Tyrant is a nasty villain, you might want to place a bunch of minions and/or traps along its escape route that it can trigger with a bonus action (or it simply avoids by virtue of levitating). Alternately, LET it take damage from a trap, because that will break the cleric's turning. And heck, since this is a levitating beholder, why not makes its escape route vertical? Even more fun! [s]Because it's anti-magic eye always functions, any PCs trying to pursue it with magical flight up the vertical shaft are going to have a challenge.[/s] EDIT: Sorry, confused its eye with normal beholder for a second. Just because it gets turned, doesn't mean that it loses all of its malign cunning. Instead, it needs to adapt to a longer term strategy of survival, leading its assailants through a horrific maze in which it gets to use its Lair Actions to maximum effect. As you can see, Turn Undead + Undead BBEG requires some changes to the way you may be used to designing dungeons. [B]How can I challenge the PCs / players in this scene?[/B] One of the things I like to do for set piece encounters is to list 2-4 complications I can throw at the PCs to spice up the fight. Sometimes this might include a complication introduced specifically to make a certain strategy the PCs might take (e.g. ambush) more difficult. Sometimes this might be a wave of minions. Sometimes this might be changes to the environment that introduce hazards. Not only does this list help you keep the encounter fresh, but it also gives you a recourse when your BBEG is getting stomped. For your Death Tyrant example... [list][*]I want long sight lines for the Death Tyrant in this encounter, so it needs a big room, probably around 100 feet in diameter, so that with the Death Tyrant at the center, it's hard for a player to get close in one round without magic. And this allows the Death Tyrant to use its difficult terrain lair action to maximum effect. It would only be fair to provide some cover...but what if there are mirrors the Death Tyrant or its ogre minions can pivot to see around cover? Or what if it uses its spectral eye lair action? [*]Hidden obstacles or grappling monsters in the intervening space. I want these obstacles/monsters to potentially stop the PCs advance on the Death Tyrant and do a little damage so it can exploit its Negative Energy Cone to maximum effect. And not just on the PCs, but turning any humanoid monster servants into zombies as well. And a CR 14 against a 14th level party should have minion monsters backing it up. [*]Drop the floor out from under them. Literally. Use disintegration ray on a critical section of the floor causing massive collapse into a lower chamber. What's in the lower chamber? What (hazardous) routes can the PCs use to get back into melee range with the Death Tyrant hovering above? [*]Include spiked pit traps (or other traps/hazards) that the Death Tyrant can use its telekinetic ray to drop PCs into. EDIT: Even better if the pit seals off with a spring-loaded trap door locking into place and green slime or centipede swarms begin crawling in through tiny fissures in the pit.[/list] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
DM: I think my players WANT me to fudge my dice roles!
Top