D&D 5E DM is letting me play a kitsune, we'll see how it works out

[daimaru42]

I should have carefully written down the rules I made up for myself instead of doing it on the fly, so this will be a bit vague. A kitsune has to be a shapeshifter, but only back and forth from a fox form. Being a fox who can shift into human (not a were) there were some skills that won't really help in the campaigns my DM likes to run, but just ~should~ be a fox's. Particularly Nature, my DM likes dungeons. Strength and Constitution lowest, Dexterity and Intelligence highest. Not many hit points but fast and hard to hit. Rogue, Arcane Trickster, seemed made for him but I couldn't see where he could have learned Thieves Cant so I threw it out. Foxes naturally have good night vision so I gave him night vision, kitsune are yokai so Fey Ancestry. Just so he can do the tricks kitsune are famous for I came up with a Kitsune Illusion cantrip that counts against his Arcane Trickster cantrip count.

KitsuneIllusion (cantrip)
CastingTime: 1 action
Range: 30 feet
Components: S, M (a bit of fleece)
Duration: Concentration
Youcreate the appearance, smell, and taste of an object within rangethat lasts for the duration or until you cast the spell again ordismiss it. This illusion must be tied to a similar physical objectand moves with that object. For instance, a cattail can appear to bea sword but does not cut like a sword. Ordinary food cantaste and smell like a feast. A copper coin can appear to be gold.
Thisillusion can cover no more than a 5-foot cube and if touched by ironor a particularly holy priest is instantly dispelled.
Ifa creature becomes suspicious and uses its action to examine theimage, the creature can determine that it is an illusion with asuccessful Intelligence (Investigation) check against your spell DC. If the creature discerns the illusion for what it is, the illusionbecomes faint and it can see the real object through it.

He also let me have a naginata, as a two handed finesse weapon. The kitsune is seriously afraid of dogs, adores tricks (chaotic neutral), but always keeps his word. He'll be joining the campaign Sunday in place of my half elf ranger, who turned out to be a tank and rather boring.

 

[Nevvur]

What's different about a naginata from a glaive that it gets to be a finesse weapon? Because it's Japanese?

 

[daimaru42]

What's different about a naginata from a glaive that it gets to be a finesse weapon? Because it's Japanese?

Mostly weight, partly training. It was meant to be a woman's weapon, to be used against armored men, so speed and precision were important. Glaives were meant more for men to chop ~through~ armor. At least that was my read on it and my DM bought it. YMMV.

 

[daimaru42]

Mostly weight, partly training. It was meant to be a woman's weapon, to be used against armored men, so speed and precision were important. Glaives were meant more for men to chop ~through~ armor. At least that was my read on it and my DM bought it. YMMV.

I also made it a 1d8, not 1d10, and not a reach weapon. My kitsune uses it because he's small and light. 5'0", 120, and strength of 9.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

What's different about a naginata from a glaive that it gets to be a finesse weapon? Because it's Japanese?

Pretty much the same difference as the Longsword and Katana: They're direct equivalents just with different names.

Its a sword onna stick. Variations such as length of stick and weight of blade are common even among weapons with the same name. The naginata was favoured as a weapon for wives of samurai because while a samurai used primarily bow and spear from horseback on a battlefield, it was assumed that their wife would be fighting in defense of the home, and thus on foot in single combat. Shorter polearms like the naginata are effective for this because they outreach a sword and the length of shaft also allows even a weaker user to generate enough force for a killing blow through leverage.

I think the insistence on making japanese weapons finesse versions of ones in the PHB is probably more to do with minmaxing character damage than any sort of racial superiority agenda.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

I also made it a 1d8, not 1d10, and not a reach weapon. My kitsune uses it because he's small and light. 5'0", 120, and strength of 9.

More similar to Rapier in 5e terms: its not going to break anything.

Although remember you can still have a decent Str score even as a small character if you want. Str in 5e is more about generation of force and athleticism than size and bulk. Think of a high-Str character in terms of Bruce Lee rather than Arnie. You don't have to play an out-of-shape or unathletic character just because you see them as small and light - unless you want to.

 

[daimaru42]

More similar to Rapier in 5e terms: its not going to break anything.

Although remember you can still have a decent Str score even as a small character if you want. Str in 5e is more about generation of force and athleticism than size and bulk. Think of a high-Str character in terms of Bruce Lee rather than Arnie. You don't have to play an out-of-shape or unathletic character just because you see them as small and light - unless you want to.

Sure, he's low Strength and Constitution by design not necessity. And high Dexterity. I wanted to make his human form much like his fox form. Really fast and hard to hit, but not able to soak up much damage once you do get through. Partly I wanted something that really felt like a kitsune, partly I got tired of always being the best person in the party to just walk up and whale on the enemy. Boring. We have a new player coming in who ~likes~ to lead, with a war hammer no less.

 

[Nevvur]

Unfortunately, the only definition the PHB provides for finesse is that you can use Strength or Dexterity for attacks rolls and damage bonus. It doesn't say why, so let's turn to a dictionary, where we get "delicacy or subtlety in action." I have a hard time picturing any type of polearm being subtle, regardless of its weight. It seems to me you've adopted a new meaning, "precise and fast," but that description applies to a lot of weapons that don't get the finesse property.

I'm having trouble believing you paid any real consideration to the mechanical themes presented in the weapons table. I do believe you wanted to get the benefits of sneak attack and your Dexterity bonus with a weapon that looks cool on your character, regardless of the inconsistency with other weapons. As Cap'n Kobold said, it's not going to break the game, but let's be honest about what you're doing here.

Regardless, you already got DM approval, you don't need mine or anyone else's. Whatever my personal thoughts on how the weapon should be treated, I do hope you have fun with your new character.
[MENTION=6802951]Cap'n Kobold[/MENTION] , I was being cheeky about just the sort of thing you describe, definitely not suggesting the OP has a racial superiority thing going on here.

 

[daimaru42]

Unfortunately, the only definition the PHB provides for finesse is that you can use Strength or Dexterity for attacks rolls and damage bonus. It doesn't say why, so let's turn to a dictionary, where we get "delicacy or subtlety in action." I have a hard time picturing any type of polearm being subtle, regardless of its weight. It seems to me you've adopted a new meaning, "precise and fast," but that description applies to a lot of weapons that don't get the finesse property.

I'm having trouble believing you paid any real consideration to the mechanical themes presented in the weapons table. I do believe you wanted to get the benefits of sneak attack and your Dexterity bonus with a weapon that looks cool on your character, regardless of the inconsistency with other weapons. As Cap'n Kobold said, it's not going to break the game, but let's be honest about what you're doing here.

Regardless, you already got DM approval, you don't need mine or anyone else's. Whatever my personal thoughts on how the weapon should be treated, I do hope you have fun with your new character.

[MENTION=6802951]Cap'n Kobold[/MENTION] , I was being cheeky about just the sort of thing you describe, definitely not suggesting the OP has a racial superiority thing going on here.

Hey, I want ~everything~ because it looks cool and is fun; why else play? But it ~is~ appropriate for the character and I did tone it down from the glaive.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Unfortunately, the only definition the PHB provides for finesse is that you can use Strength or Dexterity for attacks rolls and damage bonus. It doesn't say why, so let's turn to a dictionary, where we get "delicacy or subtlety in action." I have a hard time picturing any type of polearm being subtle, regardless of its weight. It seems to me you've adopted a new meaning, "precise and fast," but that description applies to a lot of weapons that don't get the finesse property.

Finesse is an odd property when given some thought. As a game term it differs from general usage and the image in people's minds a bit. Its often defined as something similar to 'skill', and that is the view many people have when they picture someone using a weapon 'with finesse'.
However in D&D terms, skill is already covered by proficiency bonus. D&D finesse simply means that a weapon uses grace and balance to fight with rather than power and athleticism. Its just as dangerous in the hands of Bilbo Baggins as Bruce Lee.

I think that is generally best regarded as a construct of game mechanics to allow some types of characters depicted in assorted media to be viable within the game.

[MENTION=6802951]Cap'n Kobold[/MENTION] , I was being cheeky about just the sort of thing you describe, definitely not suggesting the OP has a racial superiority thing going on here.

Yep. Sorry. Didn't mean that as an accusation. I had a brain fail moment and the only two words that I could think of were either "agenda" or "schtick".
As you've probably noticed, trying to get finesse added to a weapon is a relatively common theme, and giving it the name of an oriental version of a weapon is a common justification.
Part is probably an image thing: the view of western knights crudely beating each other with blunt swords compared with the more common media depictions of eastern martial artists spinning lightweight weapons around in display flourishes.
A lot of it is probably more to do with wanting to be able to dump Str for character optimisation purposes, but still use a superior weapon.