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Message: <blockquote data-quote="the Jester" data-source="post: 5585438" data-attributes="member: 1210">It seems like we have different ideas of a railroad. An adventure can be linear without being a railroad as long as the pcs are free to make choices- even if it is just "We choose to leave this place behind". That ability to make choices is the definition of a sandbox to me; a sandbox is a setting that the players adventure in without being forced into one path or another by the dm.I'll agree that a dm can turn a sandbox into a railroad quite easily, but I disagree that you railroad in a sandbox- it is no longer a sandbox at that point. I'll state further that I think sandbox --> railroad is a continuum, not an either-or. To me, there is all the difference in the world.A good sandbox relies on cascading consequences. The pcs' actions reverberate and make waves, and some of those may threaten the pcs or their interests. That is a feature, not a bug, of a sandbox. If the pcs feel trapped, forced to take a certain path or whatever, that's okay and it is still a sandbox. It's only when the dm actually forces them down a certain path, not when they feel like any other choice is a bad one, that the game goes from sandbox to railroad. A big part of sanbox dming is enforcing the consequences of pc actions. It sounds like you're suggesting that, if the party attacks the merchant in town and flees to the next town, the merchants there shouldn't care because that would be a negative consequence. Well, if you kill the merchants in town A in my campaign and word gets to town B, not only will the merchants not serve you, the town will outlaw you and possibly try to hunt you down. Players who try to pander to the dm are poorly trained for sandbox style play. As a dm I might want the party to go to some place I've designed that's really cool- but is out of their league. If the players pick up on my eagerness, assume that it's a path to follow right now instead of later, and don't flee after the first encounter six levels above them- TPK! And as a sandbox dm, I am okay with that. The pcs need to go where they want in a sandbox. Maybe they develop obligations and ties that they feel a need to defend throughout the campaign. Awesome! But ultimately, the decision must be up to them.Again, I disagree strongly. Saying, "Oh, you go the other direction? There's this huge army of draconians in the way! Oh, you turn west instead? More draconians!" -- THAT is a railroad. Saying, "Okay, you leave the quest behind- let's see what messed up stuff happens" is a sandbox. And actually, "the only solution to your problem is the Disks of Mishakal" in the first place is a strong railroady element in itself. Why can't the pcs try to raise armies and take the field? Why can't they join the Dragonarmies? Why can't they infiltrate them and try to assassinate their leader? Why can't they seek out a bunch of dragon slaying weapons instead (I know, that comes later)? Why can't they try to appeal to the dragons' vanity and pride to get them to eat their riders?None of those have to work, but the fact is, in the old DL modules there is no point whatsoever to even trying any of them, or anything else outside of the pre-written story. That's a railroad.</blockquote>

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