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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5587378" data-attributes="member: 42582">Vespucci, thanks for the clear reply.But how does 4e - or even aspects of 3E - fit into your old/new distinction?In 3E, for example, Expedition to the Demonweb Pits is a clear example of new school - player optimisation of PC builds plus GM as storyteller - and I would go further than you have done and say that all it leaves up to the players is a bit of colour and a bit of tactical decision-making (heavily informed, of course, by the prior optimisation).But some of the Penumbra d20 modules - like In the Belly of the Beast (Mike Mearls) or the Ebon Mirror (Keith Baker) - don't seem to fit this mould. They seem closer to the indie mould, insofar as they contemplate the players making genuinely free choices, of some thematic significance, via their PCs, which will determine how the story resolves and what the thematic import of that resolution is.4e offers similar variety. While it has some railroady stuff that fits your notion of new school (eg a lot of the modules) it has other stuff that seems different both from this and from classic/old school D&amp;D - for example, the guidelines on how to adjudicate skill challenges (both in the DMG and DMG2); or the discussion of journeying into deep myth in The Plane Above, which is basically HeroQuesting by another name. This clearly contemplates that the players will be genuinely free to make thematically signficant choices that determine the resolution of the scenario being played.So even within the domain of D&amp;D play, I find the old/new school distinction hard to apply.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 5587378, member: 42582"] Vespucci, thanks for the clear reply. But how does 4e - or even aspects of 3E - fit into your old/new distinction? In 3E, for example, Expedition to the Demonweb Pits is a clear example of new school - player optimisation of PC builds plus GM as storyteller - and I would go further than you have done and say that all it leaves up to the players is a bit of colour and a bit of tactical decision-making (heavily informed, of course, by the prior optimisation). But some of the Penumbra d20 modules - like In the Belly of the Beast (Mike Mearls) or the Ebon Mirror (Keith Baker) - don't seem to fit this mould. They seem closer to the indie mould, insofar as they contemplate the players making genuinely free choices, of some thematic significance, via their PCs, which will determine how the story resolves and what the thematic import of that resolution is. 4e offers similar variety. While it has some railroady stuff that fits your notion of new school (eg a lot of the modules) it has other stuff that seems different both from this [I]and[/I] from classic/old school D&D - for example, the guidelines on how to adjudicate skill challenges (both in the DMG and DMG2); or the discussion of journeying into deep myth in The Plane Above, which is basically HeroQuesting by another name. This clearly contemplates that the players will be genuinely free to make thematically signficant choices that determine the resolution of the scenario being played. So even within the domain of D&D play, I find the old/new school distinction hard to apply. [/QUOTE]

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