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<blockquote data-quote="kengar" data-source="post: 577199" data-attributes="member: 3230">So I'm trying to fire up a new 3e campaign with my group. Recent adventures they've played have gotten kind of boring to run because the powergamers in the group are pushing for more combat whenever possible. I'm not slamming PG-rs, it's a legit play-style. Basically they want their characters to go up and level, get powerful, etc. The classic way to do that in 3e is to find a monster (preferably with loot) to kill.I know I'm not going to convince these players that roleplaying, etc. is &quot;more fun&quot; than powergaming; one man's beef jerky is another man's poison, and all that. Rather, I thought I'd try something a little different; using the variant &quot;Story Award&quot; idea.What I hope to accomplish is to get the powergamers to try something other than just seeking combats for the XP. This would also -theoretically- shift the focus of the session a bit more towards RP for those players who like more of that. I don't want to eliminate combats, just make the party think about whether there's a good reason to get into the fight.Here's how I was thinking of running things:Sources of XP in play:Overcoming challenges while working towards a goal. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Examples: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; - &quot;Relevant&quot; combat&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; - Gathering Information/Clues&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; - Forming Strategies/Tactics&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; - Solving Puzzles/Mysteries &nbsp; &nbsp; XP earned for overcoming these challenges will depend on two main criteria; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1) How difficult the challenge was, and &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2) How much overcoming the challenge mattered to achieving a goal.Combat challenges wouldn't necessarily be worth 0xp just because they were &quot;random,&quot; but the points given out wouldn't reflect the awards in the CR charts if the combat served no purpose beyond &quot;We kill it!&quot; or self-defense. The monster that attacks you on the road while you trying to accomplish a goal would be a &quot;relevant&quot; challenge, wheras the party tramping off into the woods just to find some orcs to kill is not.Achieving Goals. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Examples:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; - Story/Campaign goals set by DM. i.e. Finishing a quest, etc.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; - Party goals. i.e. Triumphing over a rival group of adventurers.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; - Personal goals. i.e. Defeating archfoe, attaining noble rank, etc. &nbsp; &nbsp; Goals are defined in part by the DM when he makes the adventures and &nbsp; &nbsp; setting. Some goals are defined by the party as they play (i.e. 'Get items &nbsp; &nbsp; the wizard needs to set up his lab so he can make magic items for the &nbsp; &nbsp; group.'). Others are defined by the players when they design their characters &nbsp; &nbsp; (Avenge their father's death, become a knight, marry their childhood &nbsp; &nbsp; sweetheart, etc.). PC-design goals are usually longer-term goals. &quot;Get a &nbsp; &nbsp; big-a** sword!&quot; isn't really a goal. &quot;Retrieve the ancestral blade of my &nbsp; &nbsp; clan (after killing the thief messily)!&quot; is a goal.Roleplaying&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Examples:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; - Actions and decisions consistent with character and goals.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; - Keeping player and character knowledge distinct.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; - &quot;Flavor&quot; injections into game (Speaking in character, etc.). &nbsp; &nbsp; XP earned for RP is not as much as for challenges and goals, but actions&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; wildly inconsistent with a character's personality, etc. will lessen the &nbsp; &nbsp; value of any stated goals. Also, the campaign will be taking stated PC goals&nbsp; &nbsp; into account, so playing a character consistently will give them more &nbsp; &nbsp; goal-related adventures and thus more opportunities for XP awards. The&nbsp; &nbsp; criteria for determining awards for RP will be based primarily upon how &nbsp; &nbsp; consistently a character is played &quot;to concept&quot; and making an effort at&nbsp; &nbsp; &quot;fitting&quot; the character into the campaign world.What I don't want to do is make XP harder to come by. What I want is make the reward system encourage different behaviour and in-game actions. My hope is that the powergamers can still work towards getting powerful but not just by hacking whatever moves or looking for the next random &quot;crawl.&quot;So what is my question?Have any of you other DMs out there tried anything like this? If so, how did it work? Any advice or constructive criticism on my ideas?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="kengar, post: 577199, member: 3230"] So I'm trying to fire up a new 3e campaign with my group. Recent adventures they've played have gotten kind of boring to run because the powergamers in the group are pushing for more combat whenever possible. I'm not slamming PG-rs, it's a legit play-style. Basically they want their characters to go up and level, get powerful, etc. The classic way to do that in 3e is to find a monster (preferably with loot) to kill. I know I'm not going to convince these players that roleplaying, etc. is "more fun" than powergaming; one man's beef jerky is another man's poison, and all that. Rather, I thought I'd try something a little different; using the variant "Story Award" idea. What I hope to accomplish is to get the powergamers to try something other than just seeking combats for the XP. This would also -theoretically- shift the focus of the session a bit more towards RP for those players who like more of that. I don't want to eliminate combats, just make the party think about whether there's a good reason to get into the fight. Here's how I was thinking of running things: [b]Sources of XP in play:[/b] [u]Overcoming challenges while working towards a goal. [/u] Examples: [i] - "Relevant" combat - Gathering Information/Clues - Forming Strategies/Tactics - Solving Puzzles/Mysteries [/i] XP earned for overcoming these challenges will depend on two main criteria; 1) How difficult the challenge was, and 2) How much overcoming the challenge mattered to achieving a goal. Combat challenges wouldn't necessarily be worth 0xp just because they were "random," but the points given out wouldn't reflect the awards in the CR charts if the combat served no purpose beyond "We kill it!" or self-defense. The monster that attacks you on the road while you trying to accomplish a goal would be a "relevant" challenge, wheras the party tramping off into the woods just to find some orcs to kill is not. [u]Achieving Goals. [/u] Examples: [i] - Story/Campaign goals set by DM. i.e. Finishing a quest, etc. - Party goals. i.e. Triumphing over a rival group of adventurers. - Personal goals. i.e. Defeating archfoe, attaining noble rank, etc. [/i] Goals are defined in part by the DM when he makes the adventures and setting. Some goals are defined by the party as they play (i.e. 'Get items the wizard needs to set up his lab so he can make magic items for the group.'). Others are defined by the players when they design their characters (Avenge their father's death, become a knight, marry their childhood sweetheart, etc.). PC-design goals are usually longer-term goals. "Get a big-a** sword!" isn't really a goal. "Retrieve the ancestral blade of my clan (after killing the thief messily)!" is a goal. [u]Roleplaying[/u] Examples: [i] - Actions and decisions consistent with character and goals. - Keeping player and character knowledge distinct. - "Flavor" injections into game (Speaking in character, etc.). [/i] XP earned for RP is not as much as for challenges and goals, but actions wildly inconsistent with a character's personality, etc. will lessen the value of any stated goals. Also, the campaign will be taking stated PC goals into account, so playing a character consistently will give them more goal-related adventures and thus more opportunities for XP awards. The criteria for determining awards for RP will be based primarily upon how consistently a character is played "to concept" and making an effort at "fitting" the character into the campaign world. What I [i][b]don't[/b][/i][b][/b] want to do is make XP harder to come by. What I want is make the reward system encourage different behaviour and in-game actions. My hope is that the powergamers can still work towards getting powerful but not just by hacking whatever moves or looking for the next random "crawl." So what is my question? Have any of you other DMs out there tried anything like this? If so, how did it work? Any advice or constructive criticism on my ideas? [/QUOTE]

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