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Message: <blockquote data-quote="cptg1481" data-source="post: 987962" data-attributes="member: 5360">Re: Re: Re: ThanksYour comment is speculation at best....not knowing the cirsumstances....Grilling a DM is like in this excahnge, the one that inspired the post....Player: I attack the guy on the horse....(we resolve the action)DM: the IMP who is invisible (not yet seen) was holding an action to attack you if you attacked his master.  Player: What IMP?DM: the one that's invisible behind you....Player: What...no way I have blindsight via my class...DM: OH, ok well then I guess you knew he was there then, sorry dude, can't remember everything all the time.  So you don't want to attack the guy on the horse....or what?Player: Well no of course not if there is an invisible IMP behind me.  DM: OK then that attack (Already resolved)didn't happen then.  Do over....Player: I attack the IMP, (he hits wanting to flank it even though the player in flank position has no way of knowing the thing is there) .  (we argue, I decide it's not worth the fight, fine I say)I do 25 HP's of damage he's gone....DM: No,...he not he's still upPlayer: What...what kind of IMP is they only have like 13 HPS (players proceeds to pull out MM) DM: (wanting to end all debate...once again sacrificing mystery and it's attendant fun to end an argument) Well he's someones familiar and that someone has 135 HP so the IMP has half of that.  At this point he proceeds to attack it several times until it falls at which point he say's I coup de gras it.  I roll (I always roll in the open for all to see, I don't fudge for the PC's or against them, I just don;t like it, seems cheap) poorly for the IMP but he fights anyway knowing he can't really die as the player is doing subdual damage) The BBEG is heckleling him the whole time (knowing that he can't actually kill the IMP) as they are surrounded by his rather large army of undead.  The whole time the BBEG is attempting to make a deal with a couple of PC's (who are receptive) the one though is hell bent on killing his familiar for some reason.  I want to just have the army swarm him, and have the BBEG kill him but after the argueing I feel this will seem or appear vindictive so decide against it....we go on from here.  So I tell him fine...it appears dead...Player:  What, he is dead I gloat over killing the IMP to the BBEG. DM: (As BBEG) He'll be fine do you want a deal or not.  Player: wait a minute the IMP's dead he's at -35 HP or something like it.  He at least has to save versus the damage I dealt on the coup de gras. DM:  Look hes got regeneration...Player: (cutting me off, pulling out the PHB and reading the coup de gras section) BLAH, BLAH BLAH.  DM: It doesn't matter you are only doing subdual dammage..Player: (cutting me off again, to look up what kind of weapons he is susseptable to) It doesn't matter on a coup de gras he's gonna die.  DM: Look just trust me on this one he's fine let's just keep going here.After the session I actually have to pull out the SRD and prove that characters with the regen ability don't die on a coup de gras attack.  This is not clarification, or looking for the same set of rules....all of our combats have tended to degenerate to this in some fassion or another.  It gets old having to prove yourself over and over again to the same player. I think I've  bent over backwards to be overly accomodating and fair to the player in question...I don't like rule zero...never have never will, but then again I have never had a player like this....it is gettin old.  I'm gonna start using it if our combats keep going in this direction.  And yes we've had the OOG conversation and all about waiting till the end, which tends to be ok if my immediate decision is in his favor, however, if the decision's outcome is remotely bad for the character the argument tends to continue until he gets his way or I give up.  I'm giving him two more sessions to chill, then its the road home for him....</blockquote>

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