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<blockquote data-quote="Petrosian" data-source="post: 222736" data-attributes="member: 1149">Note for GM...taking 20 is your freind not your enemy.So lets look at a small room 20x20. 16 squares, 32 minutes to search with a take 20. that gives you a concrete number you know ahead of time. You should have a list of &quot;found on a take-10 and found on a take-20. the room search took maybe 2 minutes game time. isn't that better than having the players actually go thru this with you in all those cases where there is nothing of worry?Ok so when is this not feasible.Simply putm when time matters.Time matters in many ways that the PCs should be aware of and its your job to show them.First... local events and creatures... if they are in a populated structure then taking a half hour here and there gives the NPCs actions. Does someone notice the guards are not on post? Does someone come down the hallway? etc. There is plenty of incentive to not take-20 like this when adversaries still abound.Second... spells run out. Food runs out.&nbsp; Even if they are &quot;safe for now&quot; using 32 minutes now means that invisibility spell is running down. A few more encounters later and poof.Finally, even if they are in a &quot;dungeon&quot; and have cleaned it out fully so they now feel for instance safe enough to rest here and thus safe enough to spend boatloads of time taking 20, there is still the &quot;living world&quot; issue. If they stay an inordinately long time, like a couple extra days, then when they get back to town have things advanced two days. if your world ia alive and things happen in town and npcs change then they start having to think not of &quot;whats two days if we get to take 20&quot; but rather&quot;well do i want to spend two days here in this smelly dungeon hoping for hidden loot or do i want to go back to town, catch up with Lawanda for some fun and try my luck at the gaming tables.&quot; or &quot;is it worth spedning two more days here when Denoro and his minions are doing Oghma knows what in crockport while we root for a few hidden coins?&quot;if your dungeon features &quot;static&quot; npcs or if the adventure begins and ends with the dungeon, then you have set the stage for take-20 to be desirable.if the mission is over and done i know my elf sorcerer wont normally abide sitting for a couple days to do extrenme searches.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Petrosian, post: 222736, member: 1149"] Note for GM... taking 20 is your freind not your enemy. So lets look at a small room 20x20. 16 squares, 32 minutes to search with a take 20. that gives you a concrete number you know ahead of time. You should have a list of "found on a take-10 and found on a take-20. the room search took maybe 2 minutes game time. isn't that better than having the players actually go thru this with you in all those cases where there is nothing of worry? Ok so when is this not feasible. Simply putm when time matters. Time matters in many ways that the PCs should be aware of and its your job to show them. First... local events and creatures... if they are in a populated structure then taking a half hour here and there gives the NPCs actions. Does someone notice the guards are not on post? Does someone come down the hallway? etc. There is plenty of incentive to not take-20 like this when adversaries still abound. Second... spells run out. Food runs out. Even if they are "safe for now" using 32 minutes now means that invisibility spell is running down. A few more encounters later and poof. Finally, even if they are in a "dungeon" and have cleaned it out fully so they now feel for instance safe enough to rest here and thus safe enough to spend boatloads of time taking 20, there is still the "living world" issue. If they stay an inordinately long time, like a couple extra days, then when they get back to town have things advanced two days. if your world ia alive and things happen in town and npcs change then they start having to think not of "whats two days if we get to take 20" but rather"well do i want to spend two days here in this smelly dungeon hoping for hidden loot or do i want to go back to town, catch up with Lawanda for some fun and try my luck at the gaming tables." or "is it worth spedning two more days here when Denoro and his minions are doing Oghma knows what in crockport while we root for a few hidden coins?" if your dungeon features "static" npcs or if the adventure begins and ends with the dungeon, then you have set the stage for take-20 to be desirable. if the mission is over and done i know my elf sorcerer wont normally abide sitting for a couple days to do extrenme searches. [/QUOTE]

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