Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
DM Quits The Game
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="devincutler" data-source="post: 6754162" data-attributes="member: 6684551"><p>Several comments as someone who has played for 41 years now and DM'd well over 98% of that time:</p><p></p><p>1st - While the ideal situation in D&D is that the players get to play in their playground (the campaign world) and do whatever they want however they want, I find that expectation just as realistic as the DM completely railroading people. D&D has to be a cooperative experience and THAT INCLUDES THE PLAYERS COOPERATING WITH THE DM. DMs put a lot of work into providing a fun and exciting session, especially if they do their own homeworld and scenarios (as I do). The players have an obligation not to do everything the DM wants them to do but to at least have enough respect to see what the DM has set out before them and try to make a run with it.</p><p></p><p>Having the DM prepare an elaborate setting or scenario and then, 10 minutes into the session, having the players decide to turn the other way and do something else is, IMO, the height of disrespect to the DM and his preparation time. Yeah, if your DM constantly wings it...then fine. But otherwise...no.</p><p></p><p>I have seen players spend 2 hours at the start of the campaign basically declaring that their PCs have no reason to like or adventure with each other. Really? What's the <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" />ing point other than to derail things from the start.</p><p></p><p>We had a Champions campaign where one guy would ALWAYS take the disadvantages HATES AUTHORITY FIGURES and LONER and would put the maximum disadvantage points in each. Every session was spent trying to get this guy's superhero to come on the adventure, and we'd waste half the night doing it. Finally we just said screw it. We told the player he had an obligation as a player to meet the DM and other players half way. So if he wanted to play such a PC, then we'd just notify where we were going and be on our way and if the player wanted to spend the session watching us beat up the villains...that was fine with us.</p><p></p><p>In any event, IMO the best way to have DM preparedness but allow the players to determine their own way in the campaign is to ask them, once a story arc or scenario is finished, what THEY want to do next. Then, between sessions, you, the DM, can prepare. But that means the players are now bound to go through with the path THEY chose.</p><p></p><p>2nd - As a DM, however, you have to meet the players halfway as well. No battle plan survives first contact, and no scenario ever goes exactly as the DM planned. As such, you have to be prepared if the PCs (and players) dink around and don't get everything done on time. Frankly, as a DM who uber-prepares every session just like a published scenario (stat blocks, text blocks, full maps, etc.) I don't mind if the players take a long time to plan and do thing in terms of real life time. That just means I have more time to prepare and develop the next scenario(s) before they finish this one. So if the players want to dick around, while I agree it is a little disrespectful to the DM, you should view it as a chance to relax and squeeze more sessions out of your hours of preparation.</p><p></p><p>3rd - Same with combats. Yes, slow combat is a drag. And fortunately, 5th edition speeds it up quite a bit compared to earlier editions (esp. 3rd). My current 3e group is comprised of 5 PCs, all spellcasters, and 3 cohorts, 2 of which are spellcasters. And of these, 3 are druids/clerics with access to every divine spell in the game and one is a wizard with massive spell books. So it can take 1-2 hours just to pick and memorize spells! I used to sweat it, but bow I don't care. If the players don't mind, then I simply watch videos on my laptop or listen to music or even take a snooze and they can wake me when they have chosen. No skin off my back and, as said before, it just means my scenario lasts for more sessions, easing the pressure of preparing the next one.</p><p></p><p>In combat, these same players can be slow. Even when they are not, just adjudicating spell effects can take forever. Try a dispel magic on people with 20-25 spell effects on them. Or a confusion spell on 12+ monsters. But they went into this situation knowing that playing spellcasters slows the game down at higher levels and having cohorts does as well. They went in with their eyes wide open and I am fine with that.</p><p></p><p>4th - As far as players doing their own thing. Nope. Isn't allowed in my game except in very limited circumstances. Having 4-5 players sit around while 1 player goes off to do crap is a nonstarter at my table. I won't allow it. If it has to be done, we can do it via email between sessions or in a side session before or after the rest leave. Again, this is a matter of respect...in this case the players respecting the other players. Now, obviously if the players agree that 1 PC should go ahead and scout, that's different. But having 4 PCs visit the temple to research info for the quest and having 1 PC go off by himself to start a robbing spree is not acceptable.</p><p></p><p>tldr: The game is not just a sandbox for the players. The DM needs to meet the players halfway, but the players need to meet the DM halfway as well.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="devincutler, post: 6754162, member: 6684551"] Several comments as someone who has played for 41 years now and DM'd well over 98% of that time: 1st - While the ideal situation in D&D is that the players get to play in their playground (the campaign world) and do whatever they want however they want, I find that expectation just as realistic as the DM completely railroading people. D&D has to be a cooperative experience and THAT INCLUDES THE PLAYERS COOPERATING WITH THE DM. DMs put a lot of work into providing a fun and exciting session, especially if they do their own homeworld and scenarios (as I do). The players have an obligation not to do everything the DM wants them to do but to at least have enough respect to see what the DM has set out before them and try to make a run with it. Having the DM prepare an elaborate setting or scenario and then, 10 minutes into the session, having the players decide to turn the other way and do something else is, IMO, the height of disrespect to the DM and his preparation time. Yeah, if your DM constantly wings it...then fine. But otherwise...no. I have seen players spend 2 hours at the start of the campaign basically declaring that their PCs have no reason to like or adventure with each other. Really? What's the :):):):)ing point other than to derail things from the start. We had a Champions campaign where one guy would ALWAYS take the disadvantages HATES AUTHORITY FIGURES and LONER and would put the maximum disadvantage points in each. Every session was spent trying to get this guy's superhero to come on the adventure, and we'd waste half the night doing it. Finally we just said screw it. We told the player he had an obligation as a player to meet the DM and other players half way. So if he wanted to play such a PC, then we'd just notify where we were going and be on our way and if the player wanted to spend the session watching us beat up the villains...that was fine with us. In any event, IMO the best way to have DM preparedness but allow the players to determine their own way in the campaign is to ask them, once a story arc or scenario is finished, what THEY want to do next. Then, between sessions, you, the DM, can prepare. But that means the players are now bound to go through with the path THEY chose. 2nd - As a DM, however, you have to meet the players halfway as well. No battle plan survives first contact, and no scenario ever goes exactly as the DM planned. As such, you have to be prepared if the PCs (and players) dink around and don't get everything done on time. Frankly, as a DM who uber-prepares every session just like a published scenario (stat blocks, text blocks, full maps, etc.) I don't mind if the players take a long time to plan and do thing in terms of real life time. That just means I have more time to prepare and develop the next scenario(s) before they finish this one. So if the players want to dick around, while I agree it is a little disrespectful to the DM, you should view it as a chance to relax and squeeze more sessions out of your hours of preparation. 3rd - Same with combats. Yes, slow combat is a drag. And fortunately, 5th edition speeds it up quite a bit compared to earlier editions (esp. 3rd). My current 3e group is comprised of 5 PCs, all spellcasters, and 3 cohorts, 2 of which are spellcasters. And of these, 3 are druids/clerics with access to every divine spell in the game and one is a wizard with massive spell books. So it can take 1-2 hours just to pick and memorize spells! I used to sweat it, but bow I don't care. If the players don't mind, then I simply watch videos on my laptop or listen to music or even take a snooze and they can wake me when they have chosen. No skin off my back and, as said before, it just means my scenario lasts for more sessions, easing the pressure of preparing the next one. In combat, these same players can be slow. Even when they are not, just adjudicating spell effects can take forever. Try a dispel magic on people with 20-25 spell effects on them. Or a confusion spell on 12+ monsters. But they went into this situation knowing that playing spellcasters slows the game down at higher levels and having cohorts does as well. They went in with their eyes wide open and I am fine with that. 4th - As far as players doing their own thing. Nope. Isn't allowed in my game except in very limited circumstances. Having 4-5 players sit around while 1 player goes off to do crap is a nonstarter at my table. I won't allow it. If it has to be done, we can do it via email between sessions or in a side session before or after the rest leave. Again, this is a matter of respect...in this case the players respecting the other players. Now, obviously if the players agree that 1 PC should go ahead and scout, that's different. But having 4 PCs visit the temple to research info for the quest and having 1 PC go off by himself to start a robbing spree is not acceptable. tldr: The game is not just a sandbox for the players. The DM needs to meet the players halfway, but the players need to meet the DM halfway as well. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
DM Quits The Game
Top