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Message: <blockquote data-quote="terrya" data-source="post: 5780990" data-attributes="member: 6672005">- There is one of the 3 capable of dming and thats my brother. But if you  read my orginal post about him I'm sure you can work out where the  problems arise if he does. - I have been looking at castle & crusaders and Hackmaster but their both at the end of the day still D&D. In my early youth I played a bit of traveler but the fantasy setting is 100% preffered by our group.-I will try investing in some of the board games youve mentioned. Sound's like a decent idea but i cant see it being a long term fix which i guess is what im afterA huge amount of how i see D&D is passed to me by my dad who is a bit of perfectionist in the fact that if he does somthing he will do it 100% right. So when he DM's roleplay is a must, you stay in charecter and there is no out of game talk. Now this would not suit everyone but i loved it more than i can possibly describe and i try to base my Dming and expectations of the game around it, which is probably why at times i am so disapointed with my group currently who are not the types to comit to somthing on that level, where as i am. When i play i treat it as a second job almost as if the charecter was me where as some see it as a game to pass the time. This is the conflict of intrests im trying to overcome and find a happy medium</blockquote>