Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
DM Tricks to Challenge Tough PCs with Weaker Enemies
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Gold Roger" data-source="post: 3474507" data-attributes="member: 33904"><p>Weeeee!</p><p></p><p>Can I fling poo?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, one thing I generally do is to pretty much profesionally disoptimise my NPC's, with the justification that most people of higher level aren't made out to be ultimate killing maschines, even the worst villains.</p><p></p><p>Also most propably didn't get so far because they jumped into every battle guns blazing, the way PC's do, but because they chase their goals with persistency, learned many fields, picked their targets well, trained hard and especially know when and how to quit.</p><p>Technically, this means the following:</p><p></p><p>-Most NPC's don't have the kind of atributes PC's might carry around. An archmage might be damn intelligent, but his other attributes may well be average or worse. A mage that started with the following stats Str 8, Dex 10, Con 10, Wis 10, Int 15, Cha 8 might still reach a very high level, if he's a talented and ambitious mage that actually uses that clever head on his shoulder for things other than total arcane destruction.</p><p></p><p>-Most people never peak out in their chosen class because of a simple lack of potential. Unlike PC's, that can advance up to level 20 in their chosen field, the wizard above might find at the age of 27 that he doesn't get any further in his arcane studies, even though he's just learned the fourth degree of arcane might (which is still pretty good in the arcane academies, most of his generation never got past third)</p><p></p><p>-While they might not have such a good linear advancement as PC's, they might find broadening their skill far more usefull than PC's might. Thus I often have my NPC's do something PC's rarely ever do.</p><p> I call it nonsynergenic multiclassing. The names programm, as NPC's will take two or more classes that barely add to each others strength and then pit them against PC's the level of one of their classes. That way, the opponents have far more hit points and far better saves than might be expected.</p><p></p><p>One example for nonsynergetic multiclassing was a dretch sorcerer 3 that I've pitted against a first/second level group. That was the best fight at that level I've ever had and yet none of the PC's died.</p><p></p><p>Another example in the same campaign one level later was at the end of the burning plague [spoiler]the orc ceric I've modified. I've reduced his attributes, but added barbarian levels. He fought the PC's to standstill with his spells, then, once his spell had almost run out, raged, fought through his whole rage and then once the rage ended he healed himself once, before finally dying[/spoiler]. Granted, that encounter cost one PC his life, but that player loses PC's more freguently than we played, no matter what I did.</p><p></p><p>Our example wizard might take various paths once he finds he can't advance as wizard anymore. He might turn his considerable mind to clockworks and mechanisms as well as some more shadowy interests, taking levels in rogue. Or maybe he joins a monastery for soulsearching, not really gaining a lot from his new monk levels, but hey, some extra speed, knowledge skillranks, HP and great saves! Or he wants to travel the world, see more of the wild and become an archeologist, taking ranger levels. If you use NPC levels, those are great as well.</p><p></p><p>-I like how everyone always asumed that every NPC is at all times ready for a lethal showdown combat as every spellcaster only memorises combat spells (most for deadly attacks). If I had that kind of power I'd use most of it to protect my precious life, that of those close to me. Maybe the evil wizard casts mage armor trice per day on his 7 year old daughter? And my second priority would be convenience. Transportation spells, comfort spells, read mind won't work on captain planet, but on my minions and the simple people definitely.</p><p></p><p>Only then I'd be interested on some spells to incinerate my opponents. Even if I was a batlemage or crusader.</p><p></p><p>The same is true for magic items. Would really everyone have a unholy flaming dancing greatsword first on his christmas wishlist?</p><p></p><p>Likewise, while the rare warlord, adventurer and criminal might run around armored and heavily armed at all times, most other will propably wear only up to light armor and an elegant shortsword, rapier or concealed dagger at most times.</p><p></p><p>Gawadian dragonslayer is still challenging to a ragtag group of adventurers when he's underequiped out drinking with his buddies.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Of course, I also sometimes use the occasional battle crazed berserker, deadly and frail assassin, brilliant but foolish evocer or zealous crusader that uses the same modus operandi as your usual PC that yet somehow survived so far and mooks are an entirely different story.</p><p></p><p>But this is my usual approach to BBEG's, significant monsters and henchmen.</p><p></p><p>As you can see, my most important technique is nonsynergetic classing and mostly average attributes. This usually results in encounters that have a mightily lowered chance for the feared one-shot first round kill compered to encounters of een equal to or lower than the PC's CR.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Gold Roger, post: 3474507, member: 33904"] Weeeee! Can I fling poo? Well, one thing I generally do is to pretty much profesionally disoptimise my NPC's, with the justification that most people of higher level aren't made out to be ultimate killing maschines, even the worst villains. Also most propably didn't get so far because they jumped into every battle guns blazing, the way PC's do, but because they chase their goals with persistency, learned many fields, picked their targets well, trained hard and especially know when and how to quit. Technically, this means the following: -Most NPC's don't have the kind of atributes PC's might carry around. An archmage might be damn intelligent, but his other attributes may well be average or worse. A mage that started with the following stats Str 8, Dex 10, Con 10, Wis 10, Int 15, Cha 8 might still reach a very high level, if he's a talented and ambitious mage that actually uses that clever head on his shoulder for things other than total arcane destruction. -Most people never peak out in their chosen class because of a simple lack of potential. Unlike PC's, that can advance up to level 20 in their chosen field, the wizard above might find at the age of 27 that he doesn't get any further in his arcane studies, even though he's just learned the fourth degree of arcane might (which is still pretty good in the arcane academies, most of his generation never got past third) -While they might not have such a good linear advancement as PC's, they might find broadening their skill far more usefull than PC's might. Thus I often have my NPC's do something PC's rarely ever do. I call it nonsynergenic multiclassing. The names programm, as NPC's will take two or more classes that barely add to each others strength and then pit them against PC's the level of one of their classes. That way, the opponents have far more hit points and far better saves than might be expected. One example for nonsynergetic multiclassing was a dretch sorcerer 3 that I've pitted against a first/second level group. That was the best fight at that level I've ever had and yet none of the PC's died. Another example in the same campaign one level later was at the end of the burning plague [spoiler]the orc ceric I've modified. I've reduced his attributes, but added barbarian levels. He fought the PC's to standstill with his spells, then, once his spell had almost run out, raged, fought through his whole rage and then once the rage ended he healed himself once, before finally dying[/spoiler]. Granted, that encounter cost one PC his life, but that player loses PC's more freguently than we played, no matter what I did. Our example wizard might take various paths once he finds he can't advance as wizard anymore. He might turn his considerable mind to clockworks and mechanisms as well as some more shadowy interests, taking levels in rogue. Or maybe he joins a monastery for soulsearching, not really gaining a lot from his new monk levels, but hey, some extra speed, knowledge skillranks, HP and great saves! Or he wants to travel the world, see more of the wild and become an archeologist, taking ranger levels. If you use NPC levels, those are great as well. -I like how everyone always asumed that every NPC is at all times ready for a lethal showdown combat as every spellcaster only memorises combat spells (most for deadly attacks). If I had that kind of power I'd use most of it to protect my precious life, that of those close to me. Maybe the evil wizard casts mage armor trice per day on his 7 year old daughter? And my second priority would be convenience. Transportation spells, comfort spells, read mind won't work on captain planet, but on my minions and the simple people definitely. Only then I'd be interested on some spells to incinerate my opponents. Even if I was a batlemage or crusader. The same is true for magic items. Would really everyone have a unholy flaming dancing greatsword first on his christmas wishlist? Likewise, while the rare warlord, adventurer and criminal might run around armored and heavily armed at all times, most other will propably wear only up to light armor and an elegant shortsword, rapier or concealed dagger at most times. Gawadian dragonslayer is still challenging to a ragtag group of adventurers when he's underequiped out drinking with his buddies. Of course, I also sometimes use the occasional battle crazed berserker, deadly and frail assassin, brilliant but foolish evocer or zealous crusader that uses the same modus operandi as your usual PC that yet somehow survived so far and mooks are an entirely different story. But this is my usual approach to BBEG's, significant monsters and henchmen. As you can see, my most important technique is nonsynergetic classing and mostly average attributes. This usually results in encounters that have a mightily lowered chance for the feared one-shot first round kill compered to encounters of een equal to or lower than the PC's CR. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
DM Tricks to Challenge Tough PCs with Weaker Enemies
Top