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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 3257103" data-attributes="member: 4937">Yuck.I've never had any problem beating my PC's into submission.&nbsp; In fact, I usually have the opposite problem.&nbsp; I don't really want to kill of PC's (although I'd never say that to my players, as it would harm my rep as a rat err... 'fink' DM), but players always seem to find ways to die and die horribly.I've heard of games that were &quot;me vs. them&quot;, and I've seen one player get into this sort of antagonistic relationship with the DM, but I've never actually been in a game where the PC's considered the DM the enemy and had to 'beat' him.&nbsp;&nbsp; I mean seriously.&nbsp; The DM can't be beaten.&nbsp; Whenever I here about situations in which the PC's 'can't be touched' my immediate suspicion is that there is cheating of some sort going on, or that the DM has lost control of the game and has one or more PC's dictating to him the outcome of actions.&nbsp; And that I have seen.&nbsp; I've seen players that 'roll' 20 15+'s in a row, or say that they do.&nbsp; I've seen players that never manage to 'roll' less than an 18 for thier initiative except when I make them roll in front of me.&nbsp;&nbsp; I've seen DM's bullied by a player into letting the player essentially decide what the outcome of his character's every action was, with the player saying what the character does and then wheedling, threatening, coersing, rules lawyering, complaining, and throwing tantrums until the DM agree to the outcome that the player wanted to see.But, beside that, the DM can't can't can't be beaten.&nbsp; Anyway, as for the original question, no, I would never introduce a NPC troll with the monkey grip feat as a foil - or at least - not early in the players career.&nbsp; The big drawback of the monkey grip feat as far as I can see, is that you are almost certainly not going to get as cool of toys as someone who uses a more normal sized weapon.&nbsp; Large sized creatures and medium sized creatures with the monkey grip feat therefore to me make better foils for your player, as not only do they make great rivals but when the PC does triumph he gets to take thier toys (and this lets you control the power level of the character indirectly, by providing the sort of toys you can live with while still giving a 'Coooool' factor to boosts the players self-esteem).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 3257103, member: 4937"] Yuck. I've never had any problem beating my PC's into submission. In fact, I usually have the opposite problem. I don't really want to kill of PC's (although I'd never say that to my players, as it would harm my rep as a rat err... 'fink' DM), but players always seem to find ways to die and die horribly. I've heard of games that were "me vs. them", and I've seen one player get into this sort of antagonistic relationship with the DM, but I've never actually been in a game where the PC's considered the DM the enemy and had to 'beat' him. I mean seriously. The DM can't be beaten. Whenever I here about situations in which the PC's 'can't be touched' my immediate suspicion is that there is cheating of some sort going on, or that the DM has lost control of the game and has one or more PC's dictating to him the outcome of actions. And that I have seen. I've seen players that 'roll' 20 15+'s in a row, or say that they do. I've seen players that never manage to 'roll' less than an 18 for thier initiative except when I make them roll in front of me. I've seen DM's bullied by a player into letting the player essentially decide what the outcome of his character's every action was, with the player saying what the character does and then wheedling, threatening, coersing, rules lawyering, complaining, and throwing tantrums until the DM agree to the outcome that the player wanted to see. But, beside that, the DM can't can't can't be beaten. Anyway, as for the original question, no, I would never introduce a NPC troll with the monkey grip feat as a foil - or at least - not early in the players career. The big drawback of the monkey grip feat as far as I can see, is that you are almost certainly not going to get as cool of toys as someone who uses a more normal sized weapon. Large sized creatures and medium sized creatures with the monkey grip feat therefore to me make better foils for your player, as not only do they make great rivals but when the PC does triumph he gets to take thier toys (and this lets you control the power level of the character indirectly, by providing the sort of toys you can live with while still giving a 'Coooool' factor to boosts the players self-esteem). [/QUOTE]

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