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Message: <blockquote data-quote="LordVyreth" data-source="post: 2331060" data-attributes="member: 9626">It sounds like I'll be disappointed with the mob template again.  I had issues with it from the Dungeon article and it sounds like it hasn't changed much from there.  I understand using variant rules for hp and damage when we have thousands of insects or vermin, and it would make sense for similar rules for hundreds of low-CR creatures like commoners or zombies.  But 48 commoners transform into a 30 HD creature with hp equal to all the creatures combined?  That strikes me as a little ridiculous.  For one thing, the saves are insanely boosted.  If a bunch of commoners have little to no chance to avoid a DC 20 fireball, how come they can easily evade it when tightly stacked together?  And it should be much easier to lose their combat effectiveness than just invidually-targetted death effects.  A decent fighter would theoretically take off 2% of the group's total combat effectiveness per hit, or 10% in a full attack.  And I agree that it's silly that Cleave and Whirlwind Attack gets nerfed, and even area effects are much less effective this way.  I mean, the only real value of Cleave, Whirlwind Attack, and evocation magic at this point is takign out mooks, and this would completely nerf all of them.And the large size mob's even weirder!  I mean, a dozen ogres?  That's two rounds of attacks by a barbarian or one mid-range fireball, but they become ten times stronger by squeezing together a bit?  That's not even enough to justify the argument that a fireball wouldn't kill them all because the inner bodies block the damage to those farther back, especially since the mob would lose no combat effectiveness from said bodies.Oh, Lonny, I just realized the chaos this could cause if the PCs try to turn it about.  Finally a really effective combat use for those hundreds of 1st and 2nd level followers you get from Leadership!  Or they could just gather a few dozen beggars and use Diplomacy to incite them.  I'm sure somebody here remembers the infamous "beggar mob" stories from Knights of the Dinner Table.</blockquote>

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