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<blockquote data-quote="Isollae" data-source="post: 513429" data-attributes="member: 9126">ok, first off, why would you use HARM against an undead.&nbsp; Harm is the 'reverse' of HEAL therefor it HEALS undead.2nd both are touch spells. and therefore are touch attacks and generate AoO's.&nbsp; 3rd the amount that Harm (and Heal) effect are based upon the recipient NOT the caster.&nbsp; while it IS often used with HIGH level chariters and USUALLY returns alot of hitpoints this is just player maximization.4th your not looking at the progresion of the healling sphere. the last spell that provides xd8 healling is 4th.&nbsp; while 5th does have healling circle this is a form of mass heal and doesn't relate to what your talking about. 5th is also the first level that cleics get a spell that combats death itself (raise dead)5th you haven't looked the realative power comparason of Heal and Harm...Heal as writin is more powerfull then Harm...does this mean that Harm should be a lower spell?6th you also haven't looked at the realationship of these spells as they have progressed throught the D&amp;D universe...&nbsp; remember that cleics only had spells UP TO 7TH LEVEL.&nbsp; so a sixth level spell was pretty sweet.7th you ALWAYS need to exercise caution when limiting a spell WITHOUT looking at higher level versions of the same spell.&nbsp; this will show you DESIGNERS INTENT.&nbsp; and in this case its was CLEARLY the intent of the designers that heal AND harm do EXACTLY what they do at the level they do it.proof..you ask for proof on the last statement..ok....the 8th level cleric spell MASS HEAL supports this claim.now if you WANT to invoke house rules limiting these spells, fine.&nbsp; I HIGHLY recomend NOT.&nbsp; You see the real reason this is problem for most DM's is they are traped in the ME vs THEM attitude.&nbsp; this shows that YOU have bigger problems then these spells.&nbsp; I would recomend re reading the DMG in particular those sections that deal with DMing pitfalls.&nbsp; i think you may be falling into one.iso&quot;...no matter how hard they try they can't stop us now!&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Isollae, post: 513429, member: 9126"] ok, first off, why would you use HARM against an undead. Harm is the 'reverse' of HEAL therefor it HEALS undead. 2nd both are touch spells. and therefore are touch attacks and generate AoO's. 3rd the amount that Harm (and Heal) effect are based upon the recipient NOT the caster. while it IS often used with HIGH level chariters and USUALLY returns alot of hitpoints this is just player maximization. 4th your not looking at the progresion of the healling sphere. the last spell that provides xd8 healling is 4th. while 5th does have healling circle this is a form of mass heal and doesn't relate to what your talking about. 5th is also the first level that cleics get a spell that combats death itself (raise dead) 5th you haven't looked the realative power comparason of Heal and Harm...Heal as writin is more powerfull then Harm...does this mean that Harm should be a lower spell? 6th you also haven't looked at the realationship of these spells as they have progressed throught the D&D universe... remember that cleics only had spells UP TO 7TH LEVEL. so a sixth level spell was pretty sweet. 7th you ALWAYS need to exercise caution when limiting a spell WITHOUT looking at higher level versions of the same spell. this will show you DESIGNERS INTENT. and in this case its was CLEARLY the intent of the designers that heal AND harm do EXACTLY what they do at the level they do it. proof..you ask for proof on the last statement..ok....the 8th level cleric spell MASS HEAL supports this claim. now if you WANT to invoke house rules limiting these spells, fine. I HIGHLY recomend NOT. You see the real reason this is problem for most DM's is they are traped in the ME vs THEM attitude. this shows that YOU have bigger problems then these spells. I would recomend re reading the DMG in particular those sections that deal with DMing pitfalls. i think you may be falling into one. iso "...no matter how hard they try they can't stop us now!" [/QUOTE]

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