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DMG's definition of "Deadly" is much less deadly than mine: Data Aggregation?
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<blockquote data-quote="Uller" data-source="post: 6704420" data-attributes="member: 413"><p>Wow. You're right. Hadn't noticed the change. Definitely an improvement. Still it's only ballpark and still seems to work best with 3-4 PCs and a similar number of monsters and the 6-8 encounters per day model. Any change in any of those variables rapidly breaks down. </p><p></p><p>In our last game a party of 5 7th level PCs fought the following encounters with no rest (not even short)</p><p></p><p>2700 XP - Easy</p><p>12,200 XP - Deadly</p><p>1950 - Easy</p><p>1350 - Easy</p><p>6,200 - Hard</p><p></p><p>The last three were in rapid succession as the denizens of the dungeon rallied to counter attack the PCs after they nearly killed the BBEG in that second fight...he escaped and started sending his troops after the PCs. The only thing that kept the PCs alive was they didn't hole up and wait for a massive assault. They kept moving so the monsters couldn't get organized and an NPC eventually betrayed her cult and helped them.</p><p></p><p>That's a total of 24,300 XP (adjusted) out of a "budget" of 35,000 XP for that party (EDIT: Correction...that should be 25,000...so it's right in the ball park). The party was pretty well battered, low on spells and other resources (but not out completely). If they could have gotten a short rest they probably could have handled another 10,000 to 15,000 XP but it would definitely have been pushing into a potential TPK. The paladin and the cleric were starting to consider holding off the enemy to let the rest of the party escape. </p><p></p><p>So the guidelines work pretty well as long as you remember they are just that....guidelines....with WIDE variations depending on tactics, dice rolls and encounter set-up. The description given by the OP doesn't sound like the party "stomped" the three carrion crawlers. It sounds like a bad die roll or bad tactics early on could have changed things dramatically. As it was the party was left without much left to go on which is what I would expect that encounter to do. </p><p></p><p>One reason things were tough for my party is the monsters in that deadly encounter ALL got to go first, they dropped the cleric with a crit before he could even act so that left the party scrambling to get him a healing potion to get back in the fight. Had the PCs managed to get the drop on the monsters, it likely would not have been much of a challenge (a well rested 7th level party has A LOT of firepower...fireballs, stunning strikes, smites and polymorphs...they can cut through a hard or deadly encounter like butter)</p><p></p><p>THEN in the next fight there were 3 CR 1/4 monsters...Two went down quickly. One was dropped to 1 HP but could not flee...he scored a crit on the paladin. CR 1/4 monsters against a 7th level party are not trivial...someone has to spend an action or two to get rid of them and if you don't, they just might score a hit that does some noticeable damage...(in this case it was about 12...not a lot...but enough to leave a mark)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Uller, post: 6704420, member: 413"] Wow. You're right. Hadn't noticed the change. Definitely an improvement. Still it's only ballpark and still seems to work best with 3-4 PCs and a similar number of monsters and the 6-8 encounters per day model. Any change in any of those variables rapidly breaks down. In our last game a party of 5 7th level PCs fought the following encounters with no rest (not even short) 2700 XP - Easy 12,200 XP - Deadly 1950 - Easy 1350 - Easy 6,200 - Hard The last three were in rapid succession as the denizens of the dungeon rallied to counter attack the PCs after they nearly killed the BBEG in that second fight...he escaped and started sending his troops after the PCs. The only thing that kept the PCs alive was they didn't hole up and wait for a massive assault. They kept moving so the monsters couldn't get organized and an NPC eventually betrayed her cult and helped them. That's a total of 24,300 XP (adjusted) out of a "budget" of 35,000 XP for that party (EDIT: Correction...that should be 25,000...so it's right in the ball park). The party was pretty well battered, low on spells and other resources (but not out completely). If they could have gotten a short rest they probably could have handled another 10,000 to 15,000 XP but it would definitely have been pushing into a potential TPK. The paladin and the cleric were starting to consider holding off the enemy to let the rest of the party escape. So the guidelines work pretty well as long as you remember they are just that....guidelines....with WIDE variations depending on tactics, dice rolls and encounter set-up. The description given by the OP doesn't sound like the party "stomped" the three carrion crawlers. It sounds like a bad die roll or bad tactics early on could have changed things dramatically. As it was the party was left without much left to go on which is what I would expect that encounter to do. One reason things were tough for my party is the monsters in that deadly encounter ALL got to go first, they dropped the cleric with a crit before he could even act so that left the party scrambling to get him a healing potion to get back in the fight. Had the PCs managed to get the drop on the monsters, it likely would not have been much of a challenge (a well rested 7th level party has A LOT of firepower...fireballs, stunning strikes, smites and polymorphs...they can cut through a hard or deadly encounter like butter) THEN in the next fight there were 3 CR 1/4 monsters...Two went down quickly. One was dropped to 1 HP but could not flee...he scored a crit on the paladin. CR 1/4 monsters against a 7th level party are not trivial...someone has to spend an action or two to get rid of them and if you don't, they just might score a hit that does some noticeable damage...(in this case it was about 12...not a lot...but enough to leave a mark) [/QUOTE]
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DMG's definition of "Deadly" is much less deadly than mine: Data Aggregation?
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