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Message: <blockquote data-quote="the Jester" data-source="post: 6296025" data-attributes="member: 1210">This really doesn't look so bad to me. A few auto-kills on minions (before you changed them)? That's what minions are for. They're there for the pcs to mow down in huge numbers, at least, in my mind. Use waves of 'em; use minions with cool on-death abilities, or whatever, but you shouldn't be surprised when they die quick and easy.Remember, savage frenzy is a daily; twisting vines is great for slowing down one guy, but only one.What kind of encounters are you using? There doesn't need to be a "boss"- just use a mix of artillery and brutes or soldiers, and he can go ahead and slow down the brutes (allowing the artillery to destroy him by ignoring them) or slow the artillery uselessly. Another option: Use more skirmishers, especially ones that have abilities that trump difficult terrain, slow, etc. Another option: Daze him. If he's dazed and flanked by bad guys, he has to choose between making some sort of escape or getting ripped to pieces. Another option: Get next to him with multiple enemies.Another option: Eladrin bad guys or other teleporters. Another option: Hidden/invisible foes, especially lurkers. A warlock with eyebite. If he doesn't know where they are, it's harder for him to lock them down.I have an extraordinarily effective and frustrating "stop hitting yourself" mage (enchanter) in my epic game; he's the most frightfully effective controller I have seen in 4e. But I still challenge him plenty. It's just a matter of building encounters designed not to neutralize him, but rather to make him sweat. It would never occur to me to ban the class, or any other class, for being good at what it does. Compare your problem druid to a "come and get it" PH fighter. He can be the entire front line by himself, locking his foes down or punishing the hell out of them if they ignore him. A good defender is extremely annoying to deal with as a dm. Yet I love it- a good defender, like a good controller, lets a pc excel at what he wants to excel at. Yes, you need to adjust your tactics, but it's quite possible to challenge that pc- ANY pc- with the right monsters. And in 4e, it's easy to make whatever monster you want to use the right monster. It is so easy to swap in an appropriate power to a monster in 4e that I hardly use standard creatures at all anymore.</blockquote>

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