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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Varis" data-source="post: 4695201" data-attributes="member: 82427">Dungeoneering gave them the description and the probable source and function of the pipes. They knew the citadel was still occupied by the dwarves.Hmmm, logic, it would seem, is a very elastic term in D&D Ok the pipe drew attantion as a possible trap or sniper post. So two of them went and checked it.Then, they started getting ideas. I was providing the details THEY requested of me. My saying "Its just a pipe" could be as big a teaser for them as if I had said "Its dark and gloomy,..it looks interesting." In other words, player can and have been suspicious of the DM glossing over things, because they are of the impression I'm setting them up. For me its a no win situation. The solution I employ, is to approach each particular item/issue on a neutral basis and allow the players to make up their own minds based on the observable information around them. Following the logic of this example, half the students agreed to a solution to a problem that the teacher has written on the board. The other half disagreed and storm out, determined to prove the like fish, people don't drown, and like birds they can fly.   Which they are not. I know your only using it to illustrate a point.  Heh, there is a fourth option. The players themselves (as apart from the PC's) have earnt xp.Will they make the same choices given a similar senario?Lets use the classroom senario. They are students who learn from their mistakes. Just like a DM who learns from HIS mistakes (like taking ten in a skill challenge). Life goes on.</blockquote>

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