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<blockquote data-quote="Henry" data-source="post: 6314470" data-attributes="member: 158">That's perfectly fair, but I suppose in my mind it's like the difference between playing a bit of Liar's Dice, and playing Candyland. In Candyland, you're just going down the path with random chance injected, and with Liar's dice, you're mixing chance with a bit of tactics and challenge from your fellow players. Some Gygaxian puzzles were too much, I admit (Tomb of Horrors would teach me that, there are some parts that are like being chased through a minefield by a wild tiger who knows where the mines are).As for where I've come across these players, it's been various groups over the past 20 years, some young, some same age as me. It's not just &quot;kids these days&quot;, it's &quot;kids my days&quot; too. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin&nbsp; &nbsp; :D"&nbsp; data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />The why isn't &quot;we must DO something,&quot; it's more &quot;I'd love to see it happen.&quot; I have noticed for times I've gamed with former or current armed forces members, I tend to see a little more care for planning from players (for obvious reasons, I suppose) - maybe I just need to hunt around for more former military to game with. Last night in my Pathfinder game I saw a little of this -- our group was accosted in a narrow hallway by giant spiders who attacked not only at floor level, but climbing on walls too, and our group was somewhat paralyzed by the &quot;stand and deliver&quot; mentality, not thinking to retreat to either more cramped quarters and buffing our most heavily defended warrior, or to retreat to more open territory where area effects and ranged attacks could come into play. Taking my own advice, I took a few risky moves to both open up the corridor and to get into flanking position, but our first instinct was &quot;stand and swing away where we were attacked&quot; without coordination. This is a group of thirty, forty, and fifty-somethings, and we still almost fell prey to it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Henry, post: 6314470, member: 158"] That's perfectly fair, but I suppose in my mind it's like the difference between playing a bit of Liar's Dice, and playing Candyland. In Candyland, you're just going down the path with random chance injected, and with Liar's dice, you're mixing chance with a bit of tactics and challenge from your fellow players. Some Gygaxian puzzles were too much, I admit (Tomb of Horrors would teach me that, there are some parts that are like being chased through a minefield by a wild tiger who knows where the mines are). As for where I've come across these players, it's been various groups over the past 20 years, some young, some same age as me. It's not just "kids these days", it's "kids my days" too. :D The why isn't "we must DO something," it's more "I'd love to see it happen." I have noticed for times I've gamed with former or current armed forces members, I tend to see a little more care for planning from players (for obvious reasons, I suppose) - maybe I just need to hunt around for more former military to game with. Last night in my Pathfinder game I saw a little of this -- our group was accosted in a narrow hallway by giant spiders who attacked not only at floor level, but climbing on walls too, and our group was somewhat paralyzed by the "stand and deliver" mentality, not thinking to retreat to either more cramped quarters and buffing our most heavily defended warrior, or to retreat to more open territory where area effects and ranged attacks could come into play. Taking my own advice, I took a few risky moves to both open up the corridor and to get into flanking position, but our first instinct was "stand and swing away where we were attacked" without coordination. This is a group of thirty, forty, and fifty-somethings, and we still almost fell prey to it. [/QUOTE]

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