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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6315366" data-attributes="member: 87792">Video gaming was insta-death in the 80s because that was the best way to get people to buy continues.&nbsp;&nbsp; However in the 80s entertainment was generally much more passive than&nbsp; it is today; say what you like about Mass Effect 3 and its really&nbsp; irritating linearity and mockery of &quot;insanity&quot; level (and about the&nbsp; Starchild - but that's a rant for another time), there is a boatload&nbsp; more challenge to Mass&nbsp; Effect 3 than to watching another episode of The&nbsp; A Team however much fun that is.&nbsp; And that is what you are seeing all&nbsp; over the place.&nbsp; Video games are now bigger than Hollywood.&nbsp;&nbsp; The people who would have been watching films in the 70s and 80s are now&nbsp; playing video games.&nbsp; You think that there's little challenge to a best&nbsp; selling video game?&nbsp; Compare it to ET or Raiders of the Lost Ark.&nbsp;&nbsp; (And those aren't bad films).&nbsp; Halfassing it on casual mode in a Star&nbsp; Wars game is still a massively bigger challenge than watching Luke&nbsp; Skywalker on the screen.As for hardcore players?&nbsp; They get a far far&nbsp; more intense experience than they ever used to.&nbsp; PVP against anything&nbsp; up to the best in the world.&nbsp; Either EVE Onlne or Starcraft II take much&nbsp; more at just about all levels because the level of competition is so&nbsp; much higher.The arcade?&nbsp; I've played some of those old arcade&nbsp; games - and for all Pacman is a great game, you're doing the same thing&nbsp; over and over faster and faster until you fail.&nbsp; The same in Space&nbsp; Invaders.&nbsp; The challenge doesn't compare to an evolving challenge like Starcraft&nbsp; where the game gets more complex and intricate on you and rather than&nbsp; having you use the same skills better, you need more breadth as well as&nbsp; depth.&nbsp; And you're up against a human.&nbsp; You can't predict that that&nbsp; #@&amp;% red ghost will always be aimed ahead of you in Starcraft.You&nbsp; want to talk about no chance of failure?&nbsp; That's not Modern D&amp;D.&nbsp;&nbsp; That's 30 year old D&amp;D.&nbsp; Mid 80s.&nbsp; Dragonlance's Obscure Death&nbsp; Rule.&nbsp; Right there in the rules. And the 90s were advocating fudging the&nbsp; rules whenever they got in the way, frequently in the players' favour.&nbsp;&nbsp; And the endless ascent of levels?&nbsp; MMOs took them from D&amp;D.You&nbsp; want to talk about hard mode?&nbsp; The first time Tomb of Horrors was&nbsp; played it was cleaned out with no casualties.&nbsp; That's not hard mode.&nbsp;&nbsp; Braid is far tougher.&nbsp; For that matter so is Portal (and Portal ain't&nbsp; that hard).You want to talk about the entitled generation?&nbsp; As a&nbsp; boomer (I assume) you should look in a mirror.&nbsp; And broadening the&nbsp; appeal so more people get challenge based games doesn't dumb them down.&nbsp;&nbsp; It means that the market is larger.And the reward based play isn't primarily from MMOs.&nbsp; It's from Zynga/Farmville and other such games, and from iphone/android games.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 6315366, member: 87792"] Video gaming was insta-death in the 80s [I]because that was the best way to get people to buy continues[/I]. However in the 80s entertainment was generally much more passive than it is today; say what you like about Mass Effect 3 and its really irritating linearity and mockery of "insanity" level (and about the Starchild - but that's a rant for another time), there is a boatload more challenge to Mass Effect 3 than to watching another episode of The A Team however much fun that is. And that is what you are seeing all over the place. [I]Video games are now bigger than Hollywood[/I]. The people who would have been watching films in the 70s and 80s are now playing video games. You think that there's little challenge to a best selling video game? Compare it to [I]ET[/I] or [I]Raiders of the Lost Ark[/I]. (And those aren't bad films). Halfassing it on casual mode in a Star Wars game is still a massively bigger challenge than watching Luke Skywalker on the screen. As for hardcore players? They get a far [I]far[/I] more intense experience than they ever used to. PVP against anything up to the best in the world. Either EVE Onlne or Starcraft II take much more at just about all levels because the level of competition is so much higher. The arcade? I've played some of those old arcade games - and for all Pacman is a great game, you're doing the same thing over and over faster and faster until you fail. The same in Space Invaders. The challenge doesn't compare to an evolving challenge like [I]Starcraft[/I] where the game gets more complex and intricate on you and rather than having you use the same skills better, you need more breadth as well as depth. And you're up against a human. You can't predict that that #@&% red ghost will always be aimed ahead of you in Starcraft. You want to talk about no chance of failure? That's not Modern D&D. That's 30 year old D&D. Mid 80s. Dragonlance's Obscure Death Rule. Right there in the rules. And the 90s were advocating fudging the rules whenever they got in the way, frequently in the players' favour. And the endless ascent of levels? [I]MMOs took them from D&D[/I]. You want to talk about hard mode? The first time Tomb of Horrors was played it was cleaned out with no casualties. That's not hard mode. Braid is far tougher. For that matter so is Portal (and Portal ain't that hard). You want to talk about the entitled generation? As a boomer (I assume) you should look in a mirror. And broadening the appeal so more people get challenge based games doesn't dumb them down. It means that the market is larger. And the reward based play isn't primarily from MMOs. It's from Zynga/Farmville and other such games, and from iphone/android games. [/QUOTE]

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