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<blockquote data-quote="nittanytbone" data-source="post: 3499121" data-attributes="member: 35709">Hello,Just wanted to run a quick poll and see how common a &quot;ban&quot; is on this feat combination.&nbsp; I've explained it below if you're not familiar with it.Here's the Trick:Feats Required - Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, DMM Persistent SpellDivine Metamagic allows you to use Turn Undead attempts instead of increasing the spell level of the target spell.&nbsp; For example, to DMM an Extended spell would require you to pay 1+1 = 2 turn undead attempts.&nbsp; To DMM a Persistent Spell would require 6+1 = 7 Turn Undead Attempts.This combination is totally within the rules and commonly accepted as technically legal.Spells Commonly PersistedThis tactic really takes off around level 7, when Divine Power can be persisted.&nbsp; Righteous Might is also a favorite.&nbsp; Some party buffs such as Bless can also be made to last all day.&nbsp; There are a wide variety of Persist-able spells out there.A Step FurtherThis is commonly combined with Nightsticks (7500 GP each from Libris Mortis;&nbsp; Give +4 turn undead attempts), Extra Turning (core feat), or Radiant Servant of Pelor (PrC from Complete Divine).&nbsp; The Planning and Undeath Domains can augment as well by granting required feats.Eagle's Glory (core spell) can grant +2 turn attempts to fire up the DMM, and the Lust domain allows you to &quot;nova&quot; your CHA and fire up DMM.The inquisition domain allows you to get a +4 to your dispel checks, making the buffs harder to dispel.NOTE THAT YOU CANNOT USE ELEMENTAL TURN ATTEMPTS FROM THE ELEMENTAL DOMAINS TO FUEL THIS!!!&nbsp; Only Turn Undead attempts count.Limitations of the Tactic- Feats:&nbsp; Using DMM Persistent requires that you invest at least 3 feats (probably 4 - extra turning) into the trick.&nbsp; Feats are a precious resource for most clerics, so this cost is not inconsequential.- Ability Scores:&nbsp; This requires a CHA-focus.&nbsp; Clerics are a fairly high MAD class so this is a sacrifice, assuming standard point-buy for ability scores.- Dispel Magic:&nbsp; A simple Dispel Magic can wipe the buff away, making all those feats and turn attempts and equipment worthless.- Uses Turn Undead Attempts: While turning undead is usually pointless, sometimes it is handy.&nbsp; Some days a cleric might prefer to have turn attempts left than to have Divine Power running.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="nittanytbone, post: 3499121, member: 35709"] Hello, Just wanted to run a quick poll and see how common a "ban" is on this feat combination. I've explained it below if you're not familiar with it. [U]Here's the Trick:[/U] Feats Required - Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, DMM Persistent Spell Divine Metamagic allows you to use Turn Undead attempts instead of increasing the spell level of the target spell. For example, to DMM an Extended spell would require you to pay 1+1 = 2 turn undead attempts. To DMM a Persistent Spell would require 6+1 = 7 Turn Undead Attempts. [I]This combination is totally within the rules and commonly accepted as technically legal.[/I] [U]Spells Commonly Persisted[/U] This tactic really takes off around level 7, when Divine Power can be persisted. Righteous Might is also a favorite. Some party buffs such as Bless can also be made to last all day. There are a wide variety of Persist-able spells out there. [U]A Step Further[/U] This is commonly combined with Nightsticks (7500 GP each from Libris Mortis; Give +4 turn undead attempts), Extra Turning (core feat), or Radiant Servant of Pelor (PrC from Complete Divine). The Planning and Undeath Domains can augment as well by granting required feats. Eagle's Glory (core spell) can grant +2 turn attempts to fire up the DMM, and the Lust domain allows you to "nova" your CHA and fire up DMM. The inquisition domain allows you to get a +4 to your dispel checks, making the buffs harder to dispel. NOTE THAT YOU CANNOT USE ELEMENTAL TURN ATTEMPTS FROM THE ELEMENTAL DOMAINS TO FUEL THIS!!! Only Turn Undead attempts count. [U]Limitations of the Tactic[/U] - Feats: Using DMM Persistent requires that you invest at least 3 feats (probably 4 - extra turning) into the trick. Feats are a precious resource for most clerics, so this cost is not inconsequential. - Ability Scores: This requires a CHA-focus. Clerics are a fairly high MAD class so this is a sacrifice, assuming standard point-buy for ability scores. - Dispel Magic: A simple Dispel Magic can wipe the buff away, making all those feats and turn attempts and equipment worthless. - Uses Turn Undead Attempts: While turning undead is usually pointless, sometimes it is handy. Some days a cleric might prefer to have turn attempts left than to have Divine Power running. [/QUOTE]

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