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<blockquote data-quote="Destil" data-source="post: 3499328" data-attributes="member: 1980">A) Persistent Spell has been on my hit list of horridly balanced rules ever since day 1. The &quot;The persistent spell must have a personal range or a fixed range&quot; clause is a terrible balancing factor, it does not hold true that all such spells will be balanced as persistent nor do I want to be constrained by the feat when designing new spells.The huge problem with persistant is that there's no reason for it to exist. Just let a player stack extend 4 times (4x duration). If the duration isn't 24 hours yet then there's a good reason it shouldn't be an always on spell, IMHO. (Stacking the same metamagic was only really a problem with a few corner cases like a double empowered bull's strength... empower is also on my &quot;Needs some sort of balancing factor aside from the 'random' limit, but it's not nearly as easy to break).B) The biggest problem balance wise with divine meta magic is that is breaks the cap for spells, letting a PC cast a spell that would use a higher level slot than their normal limit. There's a reason a 8th level cleric can't usually cast 8th-9th level spells, and I don't care how many turnings you trade it's not balanced.Likewise you're trading a pretty limited resource that's only useful in some encounters (turn undead) for something that's always good. From a flavor standpoint divine metamagic should only work with spells like cure and searing light, IMHO (positive energy spells) for good clerics.All in all this is about the most solidly BANNED thing in 3.5e for me. I've gone so far as to get rid of turn undead entirely and make a new meta-magic feat called persistent spell with completely different effects just to make it 100% clear in my game.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Destil, post: 3499328, member: 1980"] A) Persistent Spell has been on my hit list of horridly balanced rules ever since day 1. The "The persistent spell must have a personal range or a fixed range" clause is a terrible balancing factor, it does not hold true that all such spells will be balanced as persistent nor do I want to be constrained by the feat when designing new spells. The huge problem with persistant is that there's no reason for it to exist. Just let a player stack extend 4 times (4x duration). If the duration isn't 24 hours yet then there's a good reason it shouldn't be an always on spell, IMHO. (Stacking the same metamagic was only really a problem with a few corner cases like a double empowered bull's strength... empower is also on my "Needs some sort of balancing factor aside from the 'random' limit, but it's not nearly as easy to break). B) The biggest problem balance wise with divine meta magic is that is breaks the cap for spells, letting a PC cast a spell that would use a higher level slot than their normal limit. There's a reason a 8th level cleric can't usually cast 8th-9th level spells, and I don't care how many turnings you trade it's not balanced. Likewise you're trading a pretty limited resource that's only useful in some encounters (turn undead) for something that's always good. From a flavor standpoint divine metamagic should only work with spells like cure and searing light, IMHO (positive energy spells) for good clerics. All in all this is about the most solidly BANNED thing in 3.5e for me. I've gone so far as to get rid of turn undead entirely and make a new meta-magic feat called persistent spell with completely different effects just to make it 100% clear in my game. [/QUOTE]

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