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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Omegaxicor" data-source="post: 6158141" data-attributes="member: 95351">@<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=22424" target="_blank">delericho</a> Thank you for answering the question, I kinda think that might have been the issue maybe the misunderstood something I said @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=2093" target="_blank">Gilladian</a> I wonder if either you have misunderstood something in my post or I am misunderstanding you, it is my fault because I have decided that the runes MUST be Arcane (@Hussar mentioned that and I think that having such a complex security feature inside their own house seems peculiar at best, bizarre at most) rather than decide there are runes and let the party "secretly" decide what type of runes they are? (I am sure I am misunderstanding that but I don't understand what you mean by "I have decided what the best option is") @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6681948" target="_blank">N'raac</a> First, yes the idea would be something along that, but the players just fought and fought and fought and eventually killed the monsters. (remember this was just an example of the issue I was talking about, I haven't actually played this scene with players)second, ignoring the Knowledge check which seems to have become a large portion of the thread and I accept that I was unaware of that, the party could Open Lock on the door once the security system had been disarmed (or do it before but with an increased DC and without being able to Take 10/20) or Dispel the security system (assuming they chose to do that, but again I am not going to tell them "you can dispel this trap to disable it temporarily" and maybe the Wizard doesn't have the spell prepared)Thirdly, The "What makes you think the Dwarves built this" seems good but I am not good at coming up with subtle nudges, I would quite like to be able to do that but either the players ignore what I tell them or it is the same as saying "yea the runes are Arcane and you need Spellcraft checks to disarm them" which may be fine for some groups, in fact that seems to be how everyone plays and that might be the problem.Finally, if the player could go away and look for the information in a book then s/he just learns the information, if s/he goes to a random library then I would ask for a Gather Information check or some such to determine if s/he can find the correct book (not every library has every book in existence).Though I never said the players weren't happy with the game (obviously getting TPKd or just standing in a room for hours won't be fun for anyone)EDIT: [MENTION=40176]MarkB[/MENTION] sorry I forgot to respond to that post, I can see how that works but mechanically the difference lies in what the players say "I try to think if I know anything about the Dwarves that built this place that would help in the situation" would be different than the player saying "What can I determine about these runes".I wonder if as you are describing the system (which I clearly have House Ruled), as the party walk into a big room and I begin explaining what is in the room, do I have to roll everyone's Knowledge checks (in each relevant fields) before explaining what they know and that would be all they know, meaning no more Knowledge checks regardless of if the player examines something specific?</blockquote>

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