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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Omegaxicor" data-source="post: 6158402" data-attributes="member: 95351">The last three posts have been very helpful, Firstly @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=40176" target="_blank">MarkB</a> That is essentially the question I was asking but I asked it badly, do people generally tell the players "you're doing it wrong" or just leave them (I accept that if possible ANYTHING the players do that might work, does, just to get them through)Secondly, @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6681948" target="_blank">N'raac</a> in the large post there were only two questions but 1) if the players had no ranks in Arcana then they may not get very far in their career as adventurers but they just wouldn't be able to read the runes, Dwarven, Arcane or whatever but they could have solved the puzzle by damaging the runes, of course they could have accidently damaged a meaningless rune or caused the spell to release Arcane energy into the face of the PC. 2) The players are happy but unsuccessful which is annoying for me and eventually the party because if a player is bored we can work around it but if I get bored the night collapses (that sounds stuck up but it is true)3) now that example is better than mine because it doesn't focus too much on a skill, what would you do with those players, if the Undead were "never-ending" or the battle, due to dice, turned against them? Do you tell the players "it is unlikely that Undead would be IMMUNE to turning", I have to ask how the Undead are made oblivious to the Paladin, maybe he cast Hide from Undead, in which case would you remind the players "How long does the Paladin's Hide from Undead last, ah another two hours at this level" or whatever, or do you just let them be beaten because it was their choice?and I love the idea that the Elf is standing there "Well we are really going to HAVE to go there despite what we all think...wait you can't see that neon sign flashing 'The party must go in here' I didn't know" it's brilliant! <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devil.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":devil:" title="Devil    :devil:" data-shortname=":devil:" /> @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=2093" target="_blank">Gilladian</a> yes we are misunderstanding each other, as I have just mentioned, I don't care what the players do but if I foresee a failed quest, TPK or whatever bad situation (such as the death of a character near the start of a long quest chain before he can revived easily) then what do I do, help them or leave them?When I made the example, Arcane runes, I knew they would need an Knowledge Arcana check but when the players decide to start using Diplomacy on the Elementals and continue to try to find a way to negotiate (without summoning an Earth elemental to talk to them, which I wouldn't see coming but I would allow) rather than dealing with the source of the trap. I know that there are several ways to avoid the trap but firstly they have to identify the trap.Thank you for clearing that up because that is a very important point to avoid, I did fall into that trap with the first few situations I made and it works out fine while the players follow the path you expect but the first time they don't everything collapses.</blockquote>

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