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<blockquote data-quote="N'raac" data-source="post: 6159048" data-attributes="member: 6681948">The possibility of different groups having different skill sets leads me to consider a varierty of options for dealing with the problem.&nbsp; From your description above, the players JUST HAD to consider using Knowledge:&nbsp; Arcana.&nbsp; From your comments here, other options exist.&nbsp; So let them use the options they choose, and succeed or fail accordingly.So why does dealing with a different approach than the one you envisioned crush your interest to that extent?&nbsp; And how are they now unsuccessful when your last comment indicated they could achieve success in lots of other ways.That's up to them, not me.&nbsp; They can certainly back off.&nbsp; Or they can choose to die against an unending horde because they are too stupid to consider retreat.&nbsp; If they were &quot;never-ending&quot;, I might point out that their numbers don't seem to be diminishing any.&nbsp; They can then work out other options.&nbsp; An INT roll to realize in the heat of combat that they NEVER attack the Paladin might be in order.&nbsp; Back in the camp, thats a likely eventual realization.The situation was an aspect of the location and scenario, and not of any player action or ability, so it was up to them to assess.&nbsp; If they choose to keep fighting against impossible odds, then they made that choice.&nbsp; There is a limit to how much can be done to save the PC's from player stupidity.&nbsp; Where there may be a difficult puzzle to solve, allowing the players the ability to retreat helps - assuming they will take it.&nbsp; If they stand there and let wave after wave of elementals crush them to bloody pulps, then maybe some ranks in Common Sense might be prudent for their new characters.Why?&nbsp; Can't they kill off all the elementals, or figure a way through the door, and past the trap, without figuring out the connection to the runes?Thank you for clearing that up because that is a very important point to avoid, I did fall into that trap with the first few situations I made and it works out fine while the players follow the path you expect but the first time they don't everything collapses.</blockquote>[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE="N'raac, post: 6159048, member: 6681948"] The possibility of different groups having different skill sets leads me to consider a varierty of options for dealing with the problem. From your description above, the players JUST HAD to consider using Knowledge: Arcana. From your comments here, other options exist. So let them use the options they choose, and succeed or fail accordingly. So why does dealing with a different approach than the one you envisioned crush your interest to that extent? And how are they now unsuccessful when your last comment indicated they could achieve success in lots of other ways. That's up to them, not me. They can certainly back off. Or they can choose to die against an unending horde because they are too stupid to consider retreat. If they were "never-ending", I might point out that their numbers don't seem to be diminishing any. They can then work out other options. An INT roll to realize in the heat of combat that they NEVER attack the Paladin might be in order. Back in the camp, thats a likely eventual realization. The situation was an aspect of the location and scenario, and not of any player action or ability, so it was up to them to assess. If they choose to keep fighting against impossible odds, then they made that choice. There is a limit to how much can be done to save the PC's from player stupidity. Where there may be a difficult puzzle to solve, allowing the players the ability to retreat helps - assuming they will take it. If they stand there and let wave after wave of elementals crush them to bloody pulps, then maybe some ranks in Common Sense might be prudent for their new characters. Why? Can't they kill off all the elementals, or figure a way through the door, and past the trap, without figuring out the connection to the runes? Thank you for clearing that up because that is a very important point to avoid, I did fall into that trap with the first few situations I made and it works out fine while the players follow the path you expect but the first time they don't everything collapses.[/QUOTE] [/QUOTE]

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