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<blockquote data-quote="Harmon" data-source="post: 3633683" data-attributes="member: 24357">Recently- due to our level, our characters have needed a Revivify at least once per campaign (at least), and we lost a cleric to a trap.&nbsp; Could any of the deaths been avoided by better planning, hind sight would say yes, but if we had all the proper scrolls, and been in the right place at exactly the right time then things would have gone better too.Do we plan as well as we can?&nbsp; Most of the time I feel like we have missed something- did we know the NightFang Spire was loaded with vampires and undead?&nbsp; Nope.&nbsp; Did we take a but stomping going through it?&nbsp; Yep.&nbsp; Did we have fun?&nbsp; Yep.&nbsp; Did we lose people?&nbsp; Two as I recall.&nbsp; Did we get them back?&nbsp; Yep.&nbsp; Was the last fight EL above us?&nbsp; Just barely.About old school D&amp;D vs newer versions- it isn't AD&amp;D vs 3.5e D&amp;D, its about making a challenge that is believable and win-able for the PC/Players.&nbsp; The OP seems to my view to be calling out Players and calling them wimps for not figuring away through battles that are a dozen CR above the PC, which he could be right on, he's got a good argument that some Players just want to &quot;roll to hit, and damage.&nbsp; Move to the next,&quot; but can he force a group to think about their tactics by TPKing every week?&nbsp; Personally, I would fail the CR 20 Red Dragon, cause my characters would run and hide.&nbsp; Realistically the dragon would find them, and that would be that.&nbsp; However, this group I game with does not have the time or patience to work on new characters weekly.&nbsp; We like history with characters and not a continuous line of &quot;George, the ________&quot; characters. I suppose I fail at the ultimate test of gaming- imagination in tactics.&nbsp; How do you beat a CR 20 dragon at 5th level with a realistic compliment of supplies and spells (Scroll of Stoneskin is not realistic to me at that level)?&nbsp; I have no idea.Keep it civil, and keep it going.&nbsp;&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Harmon, post: 3633683, member: 24357"] Recently- due to our level, our characters have needed a Revivify at least once per campaign (at least), and we lost a cleric to a trap. Could any of the deaths been avoided by better planning, hind sight would say yes, but if we had all the proper scrolls, and been in the right place at exactly the right time then things would have gone better too. Do we plan as well as we can? Most of the time I feel like we have missed something- did we know the NightFang Spire was loaded with vampires and undead? Nope. Did we take a but stomping going through it? Yep. Did we have fun? Yep. Did we lose people? Two as I recall. Did we get them back? Yep. Was the last fight EL above us? Just barely. About old school D&D vs newer versions- it isn't AD&D vs 3.5e D&D, its about making a challenge that is believable and win-able for the PC/Players. The OP seems to my view to be calling out Players and calling them wimps for not figuring away through battles that are a dozen CR above the PC, which he could be right on, he's got a good argument that some Players just want to "roll to hit, and damage. Move to the next," but can he force a group to think about their tactics by TPKing every week? Personally, I would fail the CR 20 Red Dragon, cause my characters would run and hide. Realistically the dragon would find them, and that would be that. However, this group I game with does not have the time or patience to work on new characters weekly. We like history with characters and not a continuous line of "George, the ________" characters. I suppose I fail at the ultimate test of gaming- imagination in tactics. How do you beat a CR 20 dragon at 5th level with a realistic compliment of supplies and spells (Scroll of Stoneskin is not realistic to me at that level)? I have no idea. Keep it civil, and keep it going. :) [/QUOTE]

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