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<blockquote data-quote="Chimera" data-source="post: 2976971" data-attributes="member: 2002">I always design my encounters with a view toward what my party can handle, so I don't understand the whole &quot;need to nerf&quot; idea unless you're talking about the use of published adventures.&nbsp; In that case, you need to adjust your ideas of what the party is capable of based on your PCs.&nbsp; As others have stated, they don't have the higher level spells of a 4th level party.IMG, I have 5 PCs and 1 NPC.&nbsp; 36 point build, Hero Points and Dork Cards.&nbsp; Lots of POWER and options.&nbsp; OTOH, they're only 3rd level and the Wizard is a Rogue 1/Wizard 2.&nbsp; When I start going through appropriate encounters, I need to keep in mind that they can pull a lot of tricks and roll right through a ton of minor creatures.&nbsp; HOWEVER, they're not going to survive multiple hits from a bunch of Ogres or similar high-damage dealing creatures, nor are they going to make a lot of DC 17 poison saves.&nbsp; In other words, I can throw a lot of CR 5+ encounters involving Orcs, Humans and lower CR creatures at them, but a couple of hot rolls with a Troll or a failed poison roll from a Phase Spider and they're dead.But hey, that works well for my GMing style.&nbsp; I prefer larger battles against multiple creatures to hot battles against single creatures.&nbsp; More opponents give everyone in the party a chance to shine, to feel like they're contributing.Same applies in the game I play in.&nbsp; I'm playing a Rogue 2 / Wizard 1 who has somehow developed the idea that he's a front line fighter (after acquiring an Adamantine +2 Bastard Sword).&nbsp; In our last session, he killed cultists, ambushed and killed a guard with a beautiful alchemist fire sneak attack (from invisibility) and ultimately killed the enemy leader!&nbsp; But in battles with larger and tougher creatures, he's NOT a factor.&nbsp; He can't stand up to them.No, he's not optimized.&nbsp; In some respects he's not as effective as a pure rogue or a pure wizard.&nbsp; But he's a lot of fun to play.And that's what is important.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Chimera, post: 2976971, member: 2002"] I always design my encounters with a view toward what my party can handle, so I don't understand the whole "need to nerf" idea unless you're talking about the use of published adventures. In that case, you need to adjust your ideas of what the party is capable of based on your PCs. As others have stated, they don't have the higher level spells of a 4th level party. IMG, I have 5 PCs and 1 NPC. 36 point build, Hero Points and Dork Cards. Lots of POWER and options. OTOH, they're only 3rd level and the Wizard is a Rogue 1/Wizard 2. When I start going through appropriate encounters, I need to keep in mind that they can pull a lot of tricks and roll right through a ton of minor creatures. HOWEVER, they're not going to survive multiple hits from a bunch of Ogres or similar high-damage dealing creatures, nor are they going to make a lot of DC 17 poison saves. In other words, I can throw a lot of CR 5+ encounters involving Orcs, Humans and lower CR creatures at them, but a couple of hot rolls with a Troll or a failed poison roll from a Phase Spider and they're dead. But hey, that works well for my GMing style. I prefer larger battles against multiple creatures to hot battles against single creatures. More opponents give everyone in the party a chance to shine, to feel like they're contributing. Same applies in the game I play in. I'm playing a Rogue 2 / Wizard 1 who has somehow developed the idea that he's a front line fighter (after acquiring an Adamantine +2 Bastard Sword). In our last session, he killed cultists, ambushed and killed a guard with a beautiful alchemist fire sneak attack (from invisibility) and ultimately killed the enemy leader! But in battles with larger and tougher creatures, he's NOT a factor. He can't stand up to them. No, he's not optimized. In some respects he's not as effective as a pure rogue or a pure wizard. But he's a lot of fun to play. And that's what is important. [/QUOTE]

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