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<blockquote data-quote="Kynn" data-source="post: 2616521" data-attributes="member: 36754">I dunno, the problem with your solution, asdel, as compared to most of the others is that you don't even give the appearance of player choice or actions making a difference.It sounds like you have it all scripted out how you'll get the players out of the mess you forced them into -- and whatever they do doesn't matter.It is a fine line between saying &quot;you put them in an unwinnable situation, you have to get them out&quot; and saying &quot;you are reducing them to spectators in an NPC drama.&quot;&nbsp; But I think you are on the wrong side now, because what matters is not whether you actually do save their bacon, but whether you make it look like their actions and choices have some effect.In the scenario you described, the player characters don't do anything, and your solution plays itself out.&nbsp; Even if you do choose one of the &quot;every path leads to salvation&quot; scenarios presented in this thread so far (most of which I enjoyed reading about), they at least allow the players to make a choices or have the actions dependent upon THEIR actions, their bravery, their moral stance, or whatever.In the one you've proposed, it seems fully dependent upon the NPCs' choices, and the players are just watching.&nbsp; Which is poor DMing, because then it becomes just performance art instead of interactive performance.You need to let the players' actions matter for more here.&nbsp; You need to at least give the APPEARANCE that their choices matter (which is really what GMing is all about) and you need to make sure that they understand that's what's expected of them.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Kynn, post: 2616521, member: 36754"] I dunno, the problem with your solution, asdel, as compared to most of the others is that you don't even give the appearance of player choice or actions making a difference. It sounds like you have it all scripted out how you'll get the players out of the mess you forced them into -- and whatever they do doesn't matter. It is a fine line between saying "you put them in an unwinnable situation, you have to get them out" and saying "you are reducing them to spectators in an NPC drama." But I think you are on the wrong side now, because what matters is not whether you actually do save their bacon, but whether you make it look like their actions and choices have some effect. In the scenario you described, the player characters don't do anything, and your solution plays itself out. Even if you do choose one of the "every path leads to salvation" scenarios presented in this thread so far (most of which I enjoyed reading about), they at least allow the players to make a choices or have the actions dependent upon THEIR actions, their bravery, their moral stance, or whatever. In the one you've proposed, it seems fully dependent upon the NPCs' choices, and the players are just watching. Which is poor DMing, because then it becomes just performance art instead of interactive performance. You need to let the players' actions matter for more here. You need to at least give the APPEARANCE that their choices matter (which is really what GMing is all about) and you need to make sure that they understand that's what's expected of them. [/QUOTE]

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