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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8395411" data-attributes="member: 6801228">You are absolutely wrong. Like... ahistorically wrong. A website about the history of road signs states "First instituted in 1901, speed limits are assigned to increase road safety and reduce the risk of traffic collisions." and "With the expansion of road systems in the first half of the 20th century, speed limits – and speed limit signs – had already grown vitally important to the safety of American citizens."If you want to make some anarchist statement about how all laws only exist for the sole purpose of punishing people, well, no politics on the forums. But considering we've had road signs and speed limit signs for 120 years, I'm pretty sure we have the data to back up the fact that they have increased safety where they were implemented properly.What rules do I want to implement? This is the second time you've made this type of declaration, but I've not pushed for any new rules, so what are you talking about?No, I didn't miss it. I didn't consider a single instance in your multiple decades of playing the game to be "typical game play". And while I could talk at some length about that situation, and how you may have handled it, I don't really see that adding to the conversation in a meaningful way. And again, you seem to be of the opinion that the issue of DMs overreaching because they are told they cannot overreach is somehow not going to be resolved because a DM who is a bad actor is going to ignore limits anyways. You aren't arguing anything that relates to my point.So, again, here is a summary of the point, yes, I am summarizing and changing your exact wording. "Why are you making these arguments?" "Because I'm not a liar and not making these arguments would make me a liar." How does this follow? Even if we accept your premise that the DM has no limits on their power, arguing for WHY that should be can't be based on the fact that it is. That would literally be arguing that the status quo should be kept because it is the status quo. And you still could have gone with "these are what the rules say" without bringing up the idea that lying is in any way relevant to this discussion.I never said that you said it was an anomaly. I said it was an anomaly. I said other things to, but I'm getting the feeling that repeating myself isn't going to do any good.Can you prove that? Can you prove that if the DnD culture wasn't one that Lionized the DM as an absolute authority with no limits on their power that they still would have turned out exactly the same? Personally, I think that since bad habits tend to breed and cause issues, that in a different set of cultural norms some of those DMs might have been average DMs instead of Bad DMs.So? Does that mean that every complaint is false? That I haven't seen those stories, and they never actually happened? "good DMs exist and people love them" doesn't mean a thing to what we are talking about.That isn't what I did. Stop accusing me of fallacies every time you don't like what I have to say.Not really, it is the basis of every social change that has ever occurred.Because you seem to think that no one would call that cheating. And that the rules perfectly justify you doing it. It seems to me that if you think the rules justify bad behavior, then we might want to look at those rules and consider if they need adjusting. Will that stop everyone? No, of course it won't. But I also don't see the harm in it. Even an acknowledgement that while the DM is free to homebrew and change rules to support the story the group wants, it is still a group game and the players voices should be heard. Honestly, with how many times you and others quote the rules at me, have you ever once seen a rule that acknowledges that player opinions should be given weight? That's how you run, but is it in the rules? Does DnD acknowledge that at all, or is the only opinion that matters in the rule books the DMs? Because, I find that unhealthy. And while there are plenty of people willing to die on the hills of making the DM the sole, ultimate authority in all things... some of the rest of us don't see the point. We don't need that much authority.</blockquote>

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