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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lyxen" data-source="post: 8399045" data-attributes="member: 7032025">No, again this is not what happened. To took a specific statement and said that I had to be wrong because it does not fit with your idea of the gaming world. I'm sorry, but it's not about details of my life.And again, if it's just a different style, how come this translates into a horror story ?No, I'm sorry, but claiming that someone is "a Bad DM for railroading by removing player agency" is bad in and of itself. There is no such holy thing as "player agency" and over my rather long TTRPG "career", mu characters have been possessed, charmed, directed and railroaded, and I still had a lot of fun doing it.Again, you are calling a different playstyle the mark of a "bad DM", and in and of itself, it's bad.No, it's asking for their preference. After that, as all players in our games, they accept that they will be railroaded now and then, because it's the nature of (epic) stories, and they trust ut to do it to the extent that they are having fun.No, it's YOUR playstyle that refuses to trust a DM with some agency in your character history, and by participating in a DM's campaign, you  should trust him anyway. After that, if you did not clarify it with him during session 0, it's at least as much your responsibility as his, because if it was that important to you, you, you, you should have said it at the start, and refused to participate.Once more, if you look at session 0 in Tasha, the basic social contract is laid along the lines of: "The players will allow you to direct the campaign." THere might be different contacts for different tables, but this is the one that I've been playing under all these years, I allow the DM to direct the campaign, meaning that I don't take offense when he dares do so with a bit of railroading.Sometimes they can, but once more I want to see both sides, especially because once more the DM has a very difficult job in addition to his preparation work, whereas players can just come, sit on their backside and complain.Again, no D&D is better than bad D&D. And if you chose your games that casually, then you should not complain that sometimes it's not exactly to your preference.And on the other hand, you have no problem tossing around "he's a bad DM" and adding this to "DM horror stories".And if the other players do not speak for you, but remain silent or speak for the DM, does it not tell you something ? That you were the odd one in the game, with just different preferences ? And that you should maybe, just maybe, consider that you were the disruptive one in that game ?And sometimes it does not work out because of different preferences. Does this make the other people horrible players, worthy of being slandered all over the world ?And on the other hand, there is an extremely heavy trend of blaming the DM and colporting "DM horror stories". From my experience, yes, the DMs are not perfect, but all I've seen were really trying their best, whereas I've seen tons of naughty word players that just wanted to have their way despite what the rest of the table wanted. And look at Lanefan's story.I'm not saying that all DMs are blameless, but at least they are, in general, trying to run games for other people, whereas there are lots of players who just want to be entertained.Yep, because unless given cause to distrust the DM (and again, in 42+ years, I don't recall any instance where I was wrong to do this, ever), I just trust him and maybe, just maybe, it's why I did not have trouble with them. Because coming with the attitude of "but the rules say this and this, and I'm therefore entitled to seeing when they are casting a spell and therefore you are wrong" is the best way to appear confrontational and, yes, entitled.But it is, the DM is describing that is happening to a specific character, why can't that annoying guy just wait for his turn, instead of butting in, which apparently he does all the time ? Let him wait for his turn, if he needs more information about playing his character, he can always ask it at that point in time.At our tables, we multiplied the combat resolution speed by at least a factor 3 by not letting players speak out of turn (unless using reactions, etc.). Not all players were culpable of interrupting and making suggestions and generally slowing down the game and hogging the spotlight, but at least it controlled the most annoying ones.There is only one DM, there are many players, they all deserve about the same amount of air time, you know, just for fairness and general politeness sake.No, this is not what the rules say. Read them, they are way, way longer and technical.But I thought what I had said was no different from reading the rules ? Please make up your mind.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> No it does not. If you think this, prove it, I think that you will find it extremely difficult to prove, I'll be waiting.Again, prove it. I'll be waiting.Ah, I was waiting for this line. Please prove to me that I'm not playing D&D. Please show me where the designers have put limits about what can be customised in the game and still call it D&D. Again, I'll be waiting a long long time.Official words, though: "A Dungeon Master adjudicates the game and determines whether to use an official ruling in play. The DM always has the final say on rules questions."We are taking offense because you are basically saying that people who fudge are cheating, so yes, cheating is a bad word and when you are saying that people are cheating when they are doing absolutely nothing of the kind, they take offense. Why are you surprised ?Especially since, once more, you are wrong in your definition of cheating, as has been pointed out multiple times.And again, why do you have to take that to such an extreme ?And yet you have, because (as with the DM using weighted dice) you are taking things to such an absurd level. Look at HotDQ. There is certainly no handing out of a script, there are plenty of opportunities for roleplaying, getting different results of encounters, and these matter. What feels like railroading to some people is just the fact that each location only points out to one next location, so the string of locations is pre-determined. We are very, very far from your claim.And still, HotDQ is not that bad, players can have tons of fun even in the first situation, where there are at least 6 or 7 missions that can be done in the town in any order, with consequences from one to the other, etc.Yeah, right, more hearsay, such a great proof.And have you ever considered that even expressing disagreement during the game is extremely disruptive ? That the usual advice is to play the game and if really important, bring it up at the end ?And here you go. "poor practices" according to who ? To your holy book of "good practices" ?And again, you are wrong about this. See the standard social contract above. Nothing in the books say anything about that holy "player agency" of yours. Sometimes, bad guys charm or possess your character. This happens in books and movies and shows. Why is that a huge problem ? Why is that a "bad practice" ?And again, who do you think you are to think that you are right about his need to change to meet YOUR standards of a perfect person. Are you that perfect yourself ? Don't you need to change at all ?Because, honestly, with this righteous attitude of yours and principles like "I'm entitled to my player agency", I really think that you could use a bit of a reality check on the game and how it can be played differently. Your attitude might be OK for some games, but it does not mean that it's good for others, and considering these other games inferior and in need of "calling them out" because you disagree spells "badwrongfun" all over the place again.I'm not proud of it, but certainly I needed to have my mind expanded a bit and it was friends (real ones) who gave me a few talks down that I totally deserved before I changed my attitude about the game. And I feel much better about it, although it certainly was painful at the time.Just think about it, OK ?</blockquote>

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