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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kahuna Burger" data-source="post: 1494218" data-attributes="member: 8439">This was my main thought. You can give them opertunities to retreat, but if they go down, they are done for. I dislike evil parties to begin with, and I've gotten the impression that a lot of folks think evil (or evil acting neutral) is somehow easier and more powerful. "Hee hee, we can torture people for information and kill the hostages and double cross our employers, look how much better we're doing than those dumb heroic parties tied down by stupid codes of honor...." But if a heroic party got so full of themselves that they needed to be taught a lesson, I would give them the lesson of temporary imprisonment and losing some stuff. Then give the group the opertunity to play a group of npc classed but competent "commoners" (non adventurers, not the actual class) who are contacted by the wizards escaping familiar, and come to execute a rescue. The npcs would be those that they had rescued or helped in the past, and it would be a nice way to get a heroic party out of their own mess and show a more than monetary reward for their past good deeds. (but they would still lose some stuff and hopefully learn that they can't win every fight.)But an evil party? If they don't need anyone else when they are on top, they don't have anyone else when they are out of luck. If they don't take a retreat opertunity, either kill them or enslave them in some nasty railroading manner. And if you eventually decide to let them escape the slavery, make it only due to the goodwill cultivated by the one good guy. Oh yeah, first introduce a couple of npcs who could have giving them important information, but make them the type that these guys see as "targets". If they ask why they didn't know the true power they were going up against, tell them.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> All evil campaigns don't have to turn into morality plays, and stupid PCs deserve a non fatal lesson in your play style, but evil and stupid should lose and quite probably lose permanently.  <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":]" title="Devious    :]" data-shortname=":]" />  kahuna Burger</blockquote>

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