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DMs sure can make life hard... :(
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<blockquote data-quote="DarkLord Of DForce" data-source="post: 5027663" data-attributes="member: 85416"><p>Well, our DM woes continue.... We're near the end of a subset of our campaign. Climbing a spiral tower. After DC checks on alarm trapped doors, etc, we get in through a window. (funny moment - we all succeed our checks to land quietly on the stairway landing beneath the window except for the Paladin in chain mail... Thud! Kathunk! Boom!<lol>).</p><p></p><p>So at the landing before the final door at the top of the tower...are 2 stone statues. The landing is a pressure plate and they come to life. They are Stone Golems. We actually have some guests this Saturday session, and wind up with 2 Warlords. We are all level 10. </p><p></p><p>9 seems like a really big group, and I guess it is...but the 2 Stone Golems are level 17 elite soldiers with 33AC and +23 to hit. Most of our party has +14, +15+ or in my Avengers case I managed to crank out a +16 to hit. Still, look what we have to roll to hit them. I have to roll a 17 or better just to hit. Our group as a whole, has to roll in the 17-19 range just to H I T. At +23, and highest AC in our group being 25, they hit almost every time.</p><p></p><p>The Warlords, as leader class, help with the skills like the one that gives +6 to hit until the end of their next turn, but thats still just one turn out of the encounter. We did other things, like flank them, for CA etc, but you can see how difficult this would be.</p><p></p><p>On top of that, when we first entered combat with them, we mistakenly thought they were stationary and tried to just blow past them and ignore them. That was a mistake of course. It was brought about because when we tried to push them, the DM ruled they couldn't be pushed. So we tried pull...then slide....and knocked prone - and finally I tried to teleport one with Sequestering Strike. All over-ruled by the DM - so we thought they were stationary. As soon as our front line blew by them, they targeted our wizard, sorceror, etc,.. We argued as to how could none of the movement affects work on them, and they said it was a DM ruling, deal with it. When they got an OA from us moving past them (it was a 3 square wide stair way) and they used the Stone Golems At-will and standard attacks for the OA, we questioned that, saying that if the Stats for the monster didn't specifically grant it the ability to use an alternate for an OA, then it should be a Basic attack. They (the current DM and the one that switches out with him) said that WOTC could bite them, and the 4e rules along with them - that they were running the game, and that was the final say on that. Period.</p><p></p><p>So it turned in to a very long encounter, especially with 9 players, who missed the majority of the time, while they wailed on us.</p><p></p><p>2 of the nine playes have decided not to return - or so they have told me, but they haven't informed the party yet.</p><p></p><p>I really love D&D and have grown very fond of my Avenger, but its difficult sometimes.</p><p></p><p>Whats everyones input on this...or do I just need to tighten my belt another notch, suck it up, and deal with it, as the DMs said?</p><p></p><p>Thanks...just venting a bit I guess... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DarkLord Of DForce, post: 5027663, member: 85416"] Well, our DM woes continue.... We're near the end of a subset of our campaign. Climbing a spiral tower. After DC checks on alarm trapped doors, etc, we get in through a window. (funny moment - we all succeed our checks to land quietly on the stairway landing beneath the window except for the Paladin in chain mail... Thud! Kathunk! Boom!<lol>). So at the landing before the final door at the top of the tower...are 2 stone statues. The landing is a pressure plate and they come to life. They are Stone Golems. We actually have some guests this Saturday session, and wind up with 2 Warlords. We are all level 10. 9 seems like a really big group, and I guess it is...but the 2 Stone Golems are level 17 elite soldiers with 33AC and +23 to hit. Most of our party has +14, +15+ or in my Avengers case I managed to crank out a +16 to hit. Still, look what we have to roll to hit them. I have to roll a 17 or better just to hit. Our group as a whole, has to roll in the 17-19 range just to H I T. At +23, and highest AC in our group being 25, they hit almost every time. The Warlords, as leader class, help with the skills like the one that gives +6 to hit until the end of their next turn, but thats still just one turn out of the encounter. We did other things, like flank them, for CA etc, but you can see how difficult this would be. On top of that, when we first entered combat with them, we mistakenly thought they were stationary and tried to just blow past them and ignore them. That was a mistake of course. It was brought about because when we tried to push them, the DM ruled they couldn't be pushed. So we tried pull...then slide....and knocked prone - and finally I tried to teleport one with Sequestering Strike. All over-ruled by the DM - so we thought they were stationary. As soon as our front line blew by them, they targeted our wizard, sorceror, etc,.. We argued as to how could none of the movement affects work on them, and they said it was a DM ruling, deal with it. When they got an OA from us moving past them (it was a 3 square wide stair way) and they used the Stone Golems At-will and standard attacks for the OA, we questioned that, saying that if the Stats for the monster didn't specifically grant it the ability to use an alternate for an OA, then it should be a Basic attack. They (the current DM and the one that switches out with him) said that WOTC could bite them, and the 4e rules along with them - that they were running the game, and that was the final say on that. Period. So it turned in to a very long encounter, especially with 9 players, who missed the majority of the time, while they wailed on us. 2 of the nine playes have decided not to return - or so they have told me, but they haven't informed the party yet. I really love D&D and have grown very fond of my Avenger, but its difficult sometimes. Whats everyones input on this...or do I just need to tighten my belt another notch, suck it up, and deal with it, as the DMs said? Thanks...just venting a bit I guess... :) [/QUOTE]
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