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<blockquote data-quote="frankthedm" data-source="post: 5027797" data-attributes="member: 1164">I normally agree with that sentiment, but with 4e, too much PC power/options are invested in forced movement. If a game master feels the effects of Slip and Slide shenanigans should be lesser/negated for bigger / heavier critters as a default, 4e might not be the best ruleset for them.Just how obligated were the players to go through the area with the golems? If the golems are in an area that the character could head to at a later date, the golems may have been a status quo encounter / <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BeefGate" target="_blank">beefgate</a> meant for when the players are stronger.Given how you have described them though, i could also see the DM<s> in question just having decided the guardians were stone golems and then looked at the stats. After dong a double take, they still placed the golems there since &quot;If 9 previous edition characters can fight 2 stone golems at 10th level, it is the systems fault if they can't do the same in 4E&quot;</s><s></s><s>How did the extra players show up? DID the gm<s> know they were coming? More people just showing up unannounced can cause issues with some folks.</s></s><s><s></s></s><s><s>in 4E, the math for to hit and defenses is fairly fine tuned so these issues will probably occur at the same time. Also in 4E it takes more than just a few lucky hits to drop most non minions.</s></s></blockquote>

[QUOTE="frankthedm, post: 5027797, member: 1164"] I normally agree with that sentiment, but with 4e, too much PC power/options are invested in forced movement. If a game master feels the effects of [I]Slip and Slide shenanigans[/I] should be lesser/negated for bigger / heavier critters as a default, 4e might not be the best ruleset for them. Just how [I]obligated[/I] were the players to go through the area with the golems? If the golems are in an area that the character could head to at a later date, the golems [I]may[/I] have been a status quo encounter / [URL="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BeefGate"]beefgate[/URL] meant for when the players are stronger. Given how you have described them though, i could also see the DM[s] in question just having decided the guardians were stone golems and then looked at the stats. After dong a double take, they still placed the golems there since [I]"If 9 previous edition characters can fight 2 stone golems at 10th level, it is the systems fault if they can't do the same in 4E"[/I] How did the extra players show up? DID the gm[s] know they were coming? More people just showing up unannounced can cause [I]issues[/I] with some folks. in 4E, the math for [I]to hit and defenses[/I] is fairly fine tuned so these issues will probably occur at the same time. Also in 4E it takes more than just a few lucky hits to drop most non minions.[/s][/s] [/QUOTE]

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