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<blockquote data-quote="AnonymousOne" data-source="post: 3940964" data-attributes="member: 50316">I have to say that seeing the effects of the grapple and improved grab mechanics at work in a recent encounter I feel the need to rant.&nbsp; 8th level party in an Arena battle against some sort of Rock spider what does Dex Damage and has a pair of ranged touch attack that turn into a grapple if even one of them succeed.Now our 8th leve group is pretty well optimized and the DM wanted to challenge us.&nbsp; Here's the problem, the rules are really vague of th creature.Step 1:&nbsp; Spider attacks twice using it's touch attack tentacle thingies.&nbsp; Players fail this because even my Rogue only has a touch AC of 16.&nbsp; Step 2:&nbsp; And then they get dragged in, free bite attack.&nbsp; This usually wouldn't penetrate the AC of the characters. Step 3:&nbsp; Right so at the end of the turn the sticky stuff on the mandibles/tentacles dissolves freeing the character.&nbsp; (there is no mention of whether the character is left prone, standing, etc.)&nbsp; A little more clarity in MANY of the monster blocks would be a nice thing.And please, for all our sakes, grapple can be cool, it can also be the most annoying thing on the planet and turn an interesting encounter into &quot;Now do I have to make a touch attack to grab ... or was that last time?&quot; kind of events.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AnonymousOne, post: 3940964, member: 50316"] I have to say that seeing the effects of the grapple and improved grab mechanics at work in a recent encounter I feel the need to rant. 8th level party in an Arena battle against some sort of Rock spider what does Dex Damage and has a pair of ranged touch attack that turn into a grapple if even one of them succeed. Now our 8th leve group is pretty well optimized and the DM wanted to challenge us. Here's the problem, the rules are really vague of th creature. Step 1: Spider attacks twice using it's touch attack tentacle thingies. Players fail this because even my Rogue only has a touch AC of 16. Step 2: And then they get dragged in, free bite attack. This usually wouldn't penetrate the AC of the characters. Step 3: Right so at the end of the turn the sticky stuff on the mandibles/tentacles dissolves freeing the character. (there is no mention of whether the character is left prone, standing, etc.) A little more clarity in MANY of the monster blocks would be a nice thing. And please, for all our sakes, grapple can be cool, it can also be the most annoying thing on the planet and turn an interesting encounter into "Now do I have to make a touch attack to grab ... or was that last time?" kind of events. [/QUOTE]

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