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<blockquote data-quote="The Sigil" data-source="post: 1020412" data-attributes="member: 2013">I stand in the crowd that says, &quot;the DM makes any roll where success/failure would not be immediately obvious to the character AND knowing whether or not the result was success or failure would have an impact on what the PCs then did.&quot;For example, I make all Spot/Listen/Search checks - because the PCs shouldn't know whether &quot;you don't find anything&quot; is due to a poor roll or because there is nothing there... and if they could see that the roll was poor, they might try again.Rolls like attack rolls are made by the players - a hit or miss would be immediately obvious.&nbsp; Jump and Climb skills are obvious - either you made the jump or you didn't.&nbsp; Escape Artist - either you're out of the ropes or you aren't (you can't think you are when you're not under most circumstances).I also let players roll against anything that might directly adversely affect their character - including things like Saves vs. Charm or Compulsion effects (the one bit of metagaming knowledge I allow other players) - because a player should feel that it's THEIR hand that has direct control of their PC, not the DM's.&nbsp; I think a player deserves the benefit of rolling their saves so they can't accuse me of &quot;railroading.&quot;But otherwise, basically, if knowing the numerical result of a particular roll (e.g., a low or high Search roll) would allow the players to metagame, I make the roll and they don't get to see the roll.IOW, players get to make &quot;action&quot; rolls, DMs get to make &quot;information&quot; rolls where failure may be either the result of a poor roll OR the information sought not existing.--The Sigil</blockquote>

[QUOTE="The Sigil, post: 1020412, member: 2013"] I stand in the crowd that says, "the DM makes any roll where success/failure would not be immediately obvious to the character AND knowing whether or not the result was success or failure would have an impact on what the PCs then did." For example, I make all Spot/Listen/Search checks - because the PCs shouldn't know whether "you don't find anything" is due to a poor roll or because there is nothing there... and if they could see that the roll was poor, they might try again. Rolls like attack rolls are made by the players - a hit or miss would be immediately obvious. Jump and Climb skills are obvious - either you made the jump or you didn't. Escape Artist - either you're out of the ropes or you aren't (you can't think you are when you're not under most circumstances). I also let players roll against anything that might directly adversely affect their character - including things like Saves vs. Charm or Compulsion effects (the one bit of metagaming knowledge I allow other players) - because a player should feel that it's THEIR hand that has direct control of their PC, not the DM's. I think a player deserves the benefit of rolling their saves so they can't accuse me of "railroading." But otherwise, basically, if knowing the numerical result of a particular roll (e.g., a low or high Search roll) would allow the players to metagame, I make the roll and they don't get to see the roll. IOW, players get to make "action" rolls, DMs get to make "information" rolls where failure may be either the result of a poor roll OR the information sought not existing. --The Sigil [/QUOTE]

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