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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Saracenus" data-source="post: 9890428" data-attributes="member: 47839">I want to clarify something, if your only metric for the success of a game is $$$, then 4e was a failure for WotC.I am a trained accounting professional (not a CPA) and one of the most mind bending parts of my education was trying to quantify the unquantifiable. To that end 4e had many non-tangible effects:For me, running weekly 4e games and building a community around D&D Encounters was a joy. It far outweighed the pain of the raging edition wars that engulfed the internet and sometimes in my local store. It brought joy folks that neither cared about editions or what the very small and vocal online community had to say. Those players and DMs were there to play and enjoy D&D, and they did. Fun is one of those intangibles.When WotC pulled the plug on 4e and started the D&D Next public playtest those same gamers mostly made the transition. So did some of the concepts that were pioneered in 4e. Heck, even 5.5e took it a step further and brought back the bloodied condition that had failed during the D&D Next play test. Lessons were learned internally from it, that is also hard to quantify.4e influenced other TTRPGs in response to its existence as a response to it or one against it. As stated up thread there are indy games mechanics that trace their linage to 4e. The external benefits are also hard to measure.We can debate all day on whether or not we like 4e or not (which a subjective war of words that cannot be won). One thing is undeniable, 4e is a valuable legacy to both D&D and the hobby as a whole.Swinging this back to what Mike was talking about in the video, there is a symbiotic relationship between D&D and the rest of the TTRPG ecosystem. Remove or diminish one or the other the whole TTRPG space suffers.To take that ecological paradigm a little farther, think of the OGL crisis a few years back to a raging forest fire. In the aftermath when the flames went out, the TTRPG forest was scared but like all ecological traumas it spurred new growth and new biomes which did not exist before. The forest is recovering and is healthier for it.So, we indeed all won. D&D 5e is trucking along and there are all kinds of interesting TTRPGs out there trucking along right beside it.Peace</blockquote>

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