D&D General Dnd is a 10th level game, how's the balance?

[Stalker0]

D&D General Thread '70% Of Games End At Lvl 7?'

Sunday at 7:11 AM

Few years back WotC released that number from Beyond. 10% make it to 10, 1% epic tier.

Older editions not sure but TSR alumni are on record saying higher level stuff didn't sell well. There was a big drop off in BE and CMI apparently for example.

This raises interesting questions about paragon paths and epic levels in 4E and prestige classes in 3.X which generally required 5 levels just to qualify. I suspect a lot of 3.X is broken involved a lot of theory craft hence Pathfinder buying another decade for it.

My current campaign is 10 plan was for 12 but a player today suggested...

• Zardnaar
• Replies: 116
• Forum: *Dungeons & Dragons

• 
• 

So the link above reminds us that 2019 playtest data reveals what a lot of us already suspected, that for the vast majority of groups, 10th level is the real capstone. 7th and 8th levels are often the endpoint, and high levels is only a whispered dream that doesn't really exist.

So with that in mind, how is the balance of this "actual" version of dnd that is just 1-10 levels? How is the martial/caster divide, any classes that stand out as particularly strong or weak?

 

[payn]

I've gone to level 20 in 5.14 and the changes were pretty minute in overall feel. Yes, the casters get incredible utility that other classes dont, but generally the combat sits in a nice zone throughout the game. I believe getting to high level is such a time commitment that mechanics are not really the deterrent like in 3E/PF1. I played with a casual lot with one min maxing ranger so take that as you will.

 

[Minigiant]

So with that in mind, how is the balance of this "actual" version of dnd that is just 1-10 levels? How is the martial/caster divide, any classes that stand out as particularly strong or weak?

If you go with 5+ encounters per day and 1-3 short rests per long rest, levels 1-10 is pretty balanced.

Casters don't have the slots to dominate over 4 encounters to overshadow Martials.

Bonuses are low unless extremely powergamed and with massive drawbacks.

 

[AlViking]

D&D General Thread '70% Of Games End At Lvl 7?'

Sunday at 7:11 AM

Few years back WotC released that number from Beyond. 10% make it to 10, 1% epic tier.

Older editions not sure but TSR alumni are on record saying higher level stuff didn't sell well. There was a big drop off in BE and CMI apparently for example.

This raises interesting questions about paragon paths and epic levels in 4E and prestige classes in 3.X which generally required 5 levels just to qualify. I suspect a lot of 3.X is broken involved a lot of theory craft hence Pathfinder buying another decade for it.

My current campaign is 10 plan was for 12 but a player today suggested...

• Zardnaar
• Replies: 116
• Forum: *Dungeons & Dragons

• 
• 

So the link above reminds us that 2019 playtest data reveals what a lot of us already suspected, that for the vast majority of groups, 10th level is the real capstone. 7th and 8th levels are often the endpoint, and high levels is only a whispered dream that doesn't really exist.

So with that in mind, how is the balance of this "actual" version of dnd that is just 1-10 levels? How is the martial/caster divide, any classes that stand out as particularly strong or weak?

I don't think it's valid to conclude that the vast majority of groups don't go above 7th level. As was pointed out you can play twice as many campaigns going to 7th as you can going to 14th. You can play at least 3 times as many campaigns going to 7th as you can going to 20th. That skews the numbers.

Given that many people that play are still in school and the relative lack of support for higher level games, I wouldn't be surprised the majority don't make it past 10th, but the numbers don't really tell us what the breakdown is.

 

[AlViking]

Unlike previous editions, particularly 3e, I find that the game holds together fairly well at all levels, even up to 20th. The casters have some cool toys but half the time I just tweak the story so that they can use those cool toys and feel like it was worth it. There are always going to be some players that are more effective than others, specific situations where some really shine while different characters have their moment elsewhere.

There's never going to be perfect balance, but it's decent and I find that it has more to do with the person playing the character than the character itself.

 

[TiQuinn]

Our group played Dungeon of the Mad Mage all the way to 20th level, and had a blast, with the game really feeling like it hit it's stride at level 11.

 

[Clint_L]

Aside from a one-shot, the highest a campaign has gotten for me with the 2024 rules is level 12. Overall balance is best after about level 7, when casters catch up to martial classes, who tend to dominate at low to mid levels with increased utility and much higher DPR. If you're playing a full spellcaster, you really need to be thinking in terms of the cool stuff you can do with your spells (control, illusion, etc.), with damage dealing a secondary function.

 

[el-remmen]

I made my Vanity Frankenstein 5e homebrew ruleset max out at 10th level but added in some higher level stuff to the first 10 (and cut some fat).

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

It highlights what a bum deal fighters get, trading away all their utility and interesting abilities to get the same number of attacks as everyone else.

 

[Theory of Games]

how is the balance of this "actual" version of dnd that is just 1-10 levels?

There's never been "balance". Ever.

How is the martial/caster divide

Broken as ever.

any classes that stand out as particularly strong or weak?

The Fighter's been the D&D Village Idiot since inception. Wizards have arrived at a point that they aren't as squishy as they used to be. Clerics remain elite, of course.