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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ComradeGnull" data-source="post: 5743020" data-attributes="member: 6685694">I want to second two that have been mentioned:  -First, 4e Dark Sun definitely has some of the elements you are looking for.  The setting is thematically quite different from standard dungeon crawling, but the survival/grittiness is definitely there.  The concept of buying 'survival days' as equipment- an abstract collection of water, rations, and protection from the sun's glare- allows for some fun survival-style RP without turning it into the extended exercise in accounting that people have mentioned.  If you're realistic about allowing extended rest, that pushes it further towards realism and grittiness, and also makes things like losing healing surges a more significant threat.-WFRP 1e/2e, though I would recommend 2e just because the old 1e stuff is harder to find and has a few mechanical bugs that were fixed in 2e.  WFRP is a game where every single combat could be the one that sees your character permanently disabled, decapitated, driven insane, or all three.  Travel in the Old World is very dangerous on its own- the 2e core book's introduction adventure is primarily about a group of refugees trying to walk from their village to a nearby city, but a creative DM can make it into an absolute nightmare.  Magic is rare and feared, healing is hard to come by (visiting a doctor could result in your bleeding to death or, again, being driven insane) and potential sources of danger are everywhere in urban and rural environments.Thirdly, you might think about playing PF or 3e using the E6 rules and adding some of the low-magic variations from the old Unearthed Arcana.  Using E6 puts a cap on how powerful the players can be and their ability to avoid mundane danger using magic or giant HP pools.  Low-magic makes healing harder to come by and reigns in the PC power level.  This also means classic opposition (like orcs, ogres, and trolls) stays threatening to PCs for longer.Harn is another option for super gritty gaming.  Very low magic, very classically medieval.  When you get hit with a weapon or a trap, you don't lose some number of points- you acquire an injury that is individually tracked and healed based on the location of the hit and the severity, ranging from bumps and bruises to bleeding wounds to sprained/dislocated/broken limbs and permanent maiming.  I've always seen it as requiring a lot of bookkeeping for everything, OTOH.EDIT: Thought of another one- use E6 PF/3e in the Dragonlance Age of Despair setting.  No clerics, no paladins, no magical healing, low character levels, little central organization and government... there is old 3e information for running this setting in the books that Margaret Weis' company published during their 3e days.</blockquote>

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