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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Obryn" data-source="post: 6022405" data-attributes="member: 11821">In this case, I really, really think most parties would have had this much trouble.  I'd go so far as to say "almost all".This encounter is cool.  And it can work, but not without a little effort.  Some quick back-of-the-envelope ideas to make it work...(1) Provide environmental effects which can make the monster at least partly visible - heavy smoke is an easy one, as are (if this were an angel) holy "candles" or pillars of some sort which reveal invisible creatures that are too close to them.  This keeps the cool idea while adding some interesting tactics and strategy.(2) Make sure ahead of time that the PCs have a chance to find a scroll or something of that nature which can reveal invisible creatures.  This was a pretty common trick in 1e adventures.  (Even the Tomb of Horrors seeds a cheap magic ring when you need to sacrifice one in the adventure.)(3) Incorporate the Full Concealment bonuses into its basic stats, at least partly.  This is the strategy used in some newer Lurkers in MV and the like.  So...  Its base defenses are at -3 compared to a normal creature of this level, but this results in a +2 against enemies who are unprepared to face invisible enemies.I disagree that this, in particular, is a high entry barrier that requires mythically perfect DMing skills.  I think it's a mistake, and an understandable one.  (Like I said, the MM1 is full of mistakes - the incorporeal/weakness/regeneration synergy of sword wraiths is huge.)But, with that said, I don't think it's particularly hard to predict (once you get some basic system familiarity) that a fight where every PC is at -5 to-hit against a creature with a lot of HPs is going to either be long and grindy or else deadly to the PCs.  I'm sorry - I understand your exasperation, but to me that's not an unforseeable consequence.  That's not a "mythical good DM," IMO.  It's a very badly-designed monster - especially if it had Soldier defenses.-O</blockquote>

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